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Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

borsche.de

111–120 of 269 posts

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#111

I've been very frustrated in my attempts to raise this issue with the local health department where I live. I was brushed aside, and was told "correlation does not imply causation". I doubt that the person on the phone wanted to get into a conversation about dynamical systems or nonlinear data analysis, so I didn't even go there. Instead I sent a letter full of references to published research, and citing other lette…

> It seems that there are certain "neo-Malthusian" individuals high up in the chains of command who simply have no interest in implementing low risk, low cost measures that prevent loss of life, and instead use their power to further cater to the already privileged groups of people they deem fit for life.

Especially the push for new expensive drugs like Remdesivir--by people who stand to profit from the sale thereof--over existing safe, effective, and cost effecient treatment protocols like HCQ-Zn-azithromicin[0].

0: https://hcqtrial.com/

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#112
post #5

Vitamin D has been endlessly promoted as a treatment for many diseases due to evidence from observational studies, but hundreds of millions of dollars in randomized controlled trials have never demonstrated it to be effective for any disease except rickets. There was just a large trial published in JAMA [1] examining its effectiveness for depression given solid observational data. It was not at all effective. The rea…

But vitamin D almost certainly does help with certain conditions. For example, I have psoriasis and can develop awful (painful, itchy, ugly) plaques on my knees and elbows, as well as painful skin nodules on the palmar surfaces of my hands and feet and dandruff. I had seen a dermatologist who prescribed some cream that sort of worked, and she recommended I expose the surfaces to 15 mins of sunlight a day. Those kind of worked, but the plaques and dandruff remained. I started supplementing Vitamin D on my own (my PCP recommended it since I'm slightly deficient), and the plaques disappeared within a few weeks. The nodules only rarely appear when I'm having a stressful time. If I forget to take vitamin D for a few days (or, in the case of the pandemic, when I run out of it and can't get a timely resupply), voila, the plaques reappear. Now that isn't a peer reviewed, double-blind controlled study or anything, but the signal is extremely strong that vit. D supplementation fixes the bulk of my psoriasis symptoms. Skepticism is warranted about all vitamin claims, but my priors for vitamin D are that it may actually be effective even when the peer reviewed research isn't out. My only caution to people is that since it's fat soluble, people should try to determine the right dose before gobbling it down.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#113

I've been very frustrated in my attempts to raise this issue with the local health department where I live. I was brushed aside, and was told "correlation does not imply causation". I doubt that the person on the phone wanted to get into a conversation about dynamical systems or nonlinear data analysis, so I didn't even go there. Instead I sent a letter full of references to published research, and citing other lette…

In this case, the doctors really do know better. Vitamin D deficiency has been linked to just about every disease. That's because it's a marker of frailty, not a direct cause for most of these diseases. In other words, correlation does not imply causation. It sounds like you have too much confidence in published research and not enough confidence in your local health officials.

> That's because it's a marker of frailty, not a direct cause for most of these diseases.

Do you actually know that?

> In other words, correlation does not imply causation.

Sorry, but just because correlation does not imply causation doesn't mean that Vitamin D deficiency isn't a cause.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Finland we put Vitamin D in milk that’s sold on normal shops. And taking a supplement is heavily recommended. Though this is mostly because for 6 months of a year one simply cannot get it the natural way (too cold and sun is too low). And thanks to this we don’t have much deficiency, long time ago we used to have. Not saying it means it would help with covid. But the supplements definitely help with deficiency in…

In the USA we fortify milk with Vitamin-D too, but only a small amount - each 8oz cup (240ml) has 15% (3mcg) of your recommended daily allowance. There's research that suggests that the RDA is way too low, plus many adults don't drink a lot of milk, certainly not enough to make significant impact on their vitamin-D intake. https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/infantandtoddlernutrition/food... https://www.healthline.com/nutr…

The last time I looked into this what I got was that there'd been a statistical error made in the process of determining the RDA, and it was just never corrected. The RDA is the amount that guarantees that only a certain fraction of the population has a deficiency, if everybody eats that much, but they calculated it so that only a certain fraction of population studies would find a deficiency on average. Furthermore, dietary vitamin D is absorbed rather poorly, so the amount of it you have to eat is immense compared to going out into the sun, resulting in really high "recommended" RDAs---it's the blood concentration divided by sensitivity but the measured sensitivity is surprisingly low. [1]

[1] A Statistical Error in the Estimation of the Recommended Dietary Allowance for Vitamin D, Paul J. Veugelers* and John Paul Ekwaru https://dx.doi.org/10.3390%2Fnu6104472

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#116
post #4

Interesting but a there's a decent chance of correlation not causation. Unhealthy people and people over 65 (i.e. those most susceptible to serious COVID complications) are the same group that are most likely to be Vitamin D deficient. The primary source of Vitamin D is sunlight. People over 65 tend to stay indoors, etc. People with darker skin are also more prone to D deficiency due to increased melanin, but also ha…

From the paper: > After correction for age, sex and previous illnesses, the risk of death is 10 times higher for people with vitamin D deficiency. That said, it could still be correlative and not causative with some different underlying health issue.

> That said, it could still be correlative and not causative with some different underlying health issue.

On the other hand, maybe Vitamin D deficiency is the cause or one the causes of those underlying health issues.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#117
post #2

Although this is a notable finding it's important to remember that it doesn't lead to the conclusion that supplementing vitamin D will be very beneficial here. When vitamin D is produced in the body naturally via exposure to sunlight there's a huge amount of other things that occur as well, and we don't have a ton of good science to back up if curing a vitamin D deficiency via supplementation of pure vitamin D is rea…

Personal anecdote - vitamin D supplements did absolutely nothing for my vitamin D levels.

it wasn't until I committed to getting more sunlight that my levels increased.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#118
post #89

I've mentioned this before, but my wife is a parathyroid surgeon (parathyroids are the glands that regulate the calcium in your neck) and would beg you to PLEASE monitor your calcium levels if you are supplementing with Vitamin D. She often sees patients on high doses of Vitamin D from well intentioned doctors, but with out of whack calcium levels because of it, and the patients can be very sick without understanding…

All the vitamin D supplements I see in the pharmacy come combined with calcium. Should that take care of it or does "out of whack" mean calcium could be too high as well as too low?

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#119
post #5

Vitamin D has been endlessly promoted as a treatment for many diseases due to evidence from observational studies, but hundreds of millions of dollars in randomized controlled trials have never demonstrated it to be effective for any disease except rickets. There was just a large trial published in JAMA [1] examining its effectiveness for depression given solid observational data. It was not at all effective. The rea…

When looking at studies that show Vit D is not helpful, it pays to understand whether the dose is significant or not.

In this case, 2,000UI is not a significant amount.

Someone in the UK can generate 10,000UI - 20,000UI from spending 5 mins in the midday summer sun.

This amount various depending on whether they are in the countryside, where about 25% of UVB radiation is absorbed by plants or sunbathing on a concrete/sand surface can reflect 100% of the UVB upwards. If sunbathing in a polluted area, the low level ozone can also reduce the UVB radiation reaching the ground depending on the pollution levels.

The Vit D Receptor has a zinc finger which is seems to only be structural, so it would seem that without enough zinc in the diet, even the 2776 VDR's in the human body according to the Wellcome Trust, Cambridge Aug 2010, most of which are concentrated around the immune system genes wont function optimally.

A point worth noting about Vit D3 supplements derived from Lanolin, aka Sheep Fat/Oil, as most sheep are dipped in organophosphates (Nerve Agents), there is a chance that you could be exposing yourself to harmful residual levels of organophosphates. I've yet to see any legislation which monitors this in Vit D supplements in any region of the world (if you know of any please reply so I can update), so megadosing Vit D3 supplements could be increasing the tiny residual amounts of organophosphates to significant and possibly harmful levels. In a study on different Vit D3 specific supplements, the amounts quoted also varied significantly.

Its also worth noting that due to the way patents work, manufacturers of Vit D serum levels measuring equipment use different methods and markers to calculate your serum 25(O)HD levels, 10 years on, the medical equipment is still not standardised as noted here. https://ods.od.nih.gov/Research/vdsp.aspx In my own limited tests using NHS equipment, the amounts measured varied by 45%.

Like all fat soluble vitamins, D3 (25(O)HD) also has a half life of about 28days so you could do what I have done in the past and purchase some UVB reptile flo tubes and bask under them during the winter months for a few hours a day to monitor serum levels. https://www.reptilecentre.com/blog/2016/09/difference-t8-t5-... If you want to know how UVB levels vary around the world, this is a good resource http://www.uvguide.co.uk/ reptiles like some other mammals also need UVB radiation for good health.

I could go on, I dont agree with some professors in this field, sometimes science seems to be a scientific Ash conformity experiment which can prevent you from becoming a qualified expert and harm your health but as always with health, there is no panacea and a variety of factors influence our health. For example if your kidneys and/or liver are not healthy you wont be able to make as much Vit D. Diet also plays a part, but if you should find yourself getting into hypercalcaemia territory, increase your Vit K intake, eg eat Brussel Sprouts, and increase your Leucine and Lysine intake as these keto amino acids also stimulate all type collagen synthesis and can reduce the calcium in the blood stream.

As the airways are the main entry point, it would seem logical to increase Vit A intake because this is required by all epithilial cells as is choline for cell membrane integrity, and choline also helps to reduce the pressure in alveoli to facilitate gas exchange which also increases physical performance but could make it easier to breath when on a ventilator and Choline also helps clean the blood through methylation. Epithelial cells secrete things, so those two supplements will enable the lungs and airway secretions to work properly producing enough functional mucous in order to trap pathogens before it even gets into the lungs where the real damage can take place. Like I said it would seem logical to do this, but I'm not an expert, just a self taught IT geek like many of you guys. :-)

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#120
post #2

Although this is a notable finding it's important to remember that it doesn't lead to the conclusion that supplementing vitamin D will be very beneficial here. When vitamin D is produced in the body naturally via exposure to sunlight there's a huge amount of other things that occur as well, and we don't have a ton of good science to back up if curing a vitamin D deficiency via supplementation of pure vitamin D is rea…

Personal anecdote - vitamin D supplements did absolutely nothing for my vitamin D levels. it wasn't until I committed to getting more sunlight that my levels increased.

What was your daily IU supplementation, and how long did you supplement before checking your levels again?

I take 5000 IU daily, but also wonder if I'd do better with more sunlight instead.

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