Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#101

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

sharpneli wrote: post #18

ve55 wrote: post #2

Although this is a notable finding it's important to remember that it doesn't lead to the conclusion that supplementing vitamin D will be very beneficial here. When vitamin D is produced in the body naturally via exposure to sunlight there's a huge amount of other things that occur as well, and we don't have a ton of good science to back up if curing a vitamin D deficiency via supplementation of pure vitamin D is rea…

In Finland we put Vitamin D in milk that’s sold on normal shops. And taking a supplement is heavily recommended. Though this is mostly because for 6 months of a year one simply cannot get it the natural way (too cold and sun is too low). And thanks to this we don’t have much deficiency, long time ago we used to have. Not saying it means it would help with covid. But the supplements definitely help with deficiency in…

[deleted]

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#102

Post by ColanR » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

conorh wrote: post #89

I've mentioned this before, but my wife is a parathyroid surgeon (parathyroids are the glands that regulate the calcium in your neck) and would beg you to PLEASE monitor your calcium levels if you are supplementing with Vitamin D. She often sees patients on high doses of Vitamin D from well intentioned doctors, but with out of whack calcium levels because of it, and the patients can be very sick without understanding…

Right now, I'd rather have a calcium problem than a Covid-19 problem. Also, some of the studies being thrown around in this discussion have mentioned that safe levels of Vitamin D are much higher than a lot of medical professionals actually think.

> there is virtually no risk of toxicity in supplementing up to 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 daily

https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#103

Post by jcampbell1 » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

James_Henry wrote: post #57

jcampbell1 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After having several kitesurfing vacations ruined by sunburns, I decided to just go to a tanning salon in the winter. It had a profound mood effect and respiratory effect almost immediately. Now I go a few times per month in winter regardless if I am going to the tropics. The UV does is completely metered. It may be a risky, but given that people that work outside have half the risk of melanoma as people who work ind…

One concern that I would have is that I've heard that the light from a tanning salon doesn't match the light output by the sun. Supposedly the sun has more UVB or something and there are reasons to believe it may be healthier. Do you, or anyone else, have any knowledge on this?

That is a concern, and the salons pitch expensive machines using high pressure bulbs with basically no UVA which will make your skin brown with little worry about sunburn and has little vitamin d effect. Since you wouldn’t be going for aesthetics, the best is to use one of the cheap beds that makes UVA and don’t go for very long. Your skin will take a month before it gets even subtly darker.

The salons call the cheap machines “sun burning” machines to up sell the more expensive “browning beds”, but just use that cheap machine and only use it for say 5 minutes instead of the max 20.

I also cover my face. I am in no way noticeably tan after years of doing this, and the low dose protocol I use makes my body similar to the color my forearms are from normal sun exposure.

I hope that is helpful, and it was years ago that I was evaluating the risks and I don’t have the exact figures anymore, but you can lookup the UV profile of the bulbs that are in the machine. Just google search the numbers on the bulb.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#104

Post by 0DHm2CxO7Lb3 » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #74

dirtyid wrote: post #7

Everyone should try a Vitamin D cycle if only to see if makes a big difference in daily life, especially if you live in area with sad winters. It's one of the few supplements that dramatically improves mood for those deficient or sensitive to large doses.

I can provide my anecdote. I live near Portland, OR and been taking 5000IU of Vitamin D for years. It doesn't do anything to help with seasonal sadness. Neither do those "sun lamps". The only thing I've found helpful (although short-lived) for that is literally leaving the state for a week to somewhere warmer; like Hawaii or San Diego. The sadness comes back shortly after returning though, and sometimes even worse th…

Yeah, it would be nice to be able to replicate a warmer and sunnier climate indoors during the winter.

Another thing you can try is to use red to near infrared light which has been shown to affect the mitochondrial electron transport chain. I read "Brain Photobiomodulation Therapy: A Narrative Review" a couple of days ago which is pretty interesting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6041198/

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#105

Post by tekgnos » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #94

tekgnos wrote: post #22

It is not surprising at all that Covid-19 matches what we already know about Vitamin D and Influenza. There are consequences for radically altering the environment in which humans evolved. We were nude outdoors and now we are clothed and indoors. When we do briefly go outside, we are all conditioned to slather on sunscreen, which blocks all Vitamin D generation. Why do people tend to get sick in the wintertime and no…

>Why do people tend to get sick in the wintertime and not the summer? There are lots of reasons for that. Vitamin-D is just one of those theories. There are also behavioral changes, such as people spending more time indoors and in sealed spaces. There is also the fact that certain viruses may survive better in colder, drier climates. There are also some theories that particles evaporate more quickly in the heat. Not…

Agree, it is a theory and one I believe. Also how/why white skin evolved is another data point to consider. Lighter skin means more Vitamin D in the summer months which is vital for humans in northern latitudes.

Clothes sure, but still were outside in the sunlight during most of the day without sunblock. Take a look at hunter gather tribes still alive today. Not a whole lot of clothes! But sure, some.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#106

Post by pieter_mj » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

et2o wrote: post #5

Vitamin D has been endlessly promoted as a treatment for many diseases due to evidence from observational studies, but hundreds of millions of dollars in randomized controlled trials have never demonstrated it to be effective for any disease except rickets. There was just a large trial published in JAMA [1] examining its effectiveness for depression given solid observational data. It was not at all effective. The rea…

Quite on the contrary, scientific research is still severely lacking. There's even no sound scientific consensus on vitamin d's rda. How should we acquire it, by sunbathing or by supplementing, in a high dosis bolus or a daily small amount, there are endless unanswered questions and endless unposed questions.

You rightfully mention a high correlation with other metrics that make, in my opinion, vitamin d health benefits and health disadvantages scientifically impenetrable.

As a tiny datapoint, I refer to the research of the (on hn at least) highly acclaimed Dr. Rhonda Patrick, who states that 70% of Americans are currently deficient on vitD. She also states that vitD has effects on 5% of gene expression, and is very important in the brain formation of foetuses since it assists the production of serotonin.

If anything, and despite of admittedly huge efforts already, vitD is heavily underresearched and many of its mechanisms unexplored.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#107

Post by conorh » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

keldaris wrote: post #99

conorh wrote: post #89

I've mentioned this before, but my wife is a parathyroid surgeon (parathyroids are the glands that regulate the calcium in your neck) and would beg you to PLEASE monitor your calcium levels if you are supplementing with Vitamin D. She often sees patients on high doses of Vitamin D from well intentioned doctors, but with out of whack calcium levels because of it, and the patients can be very sick without understanding…

Could you elaborate in more detail? Given your wife's background, I'd guess you were referring to people with pre-existing hyperparathyroidism who are therefore prone to quickly develop hypercalcaemia from even modest Vitamin D supplementation, but perhaps there's more to it? If your wife wants to write a blog post on the subject, I'm sure there'd be a lot of interest.

She was thinking about writing a blog post on Vitamin D already and she says she will it in the next few days and I'll post it here when she does. She is not talking about patients with pre-existing hyperparathyroidism - they often think they have it because the calcium is high, but it is only high because of the vitamin D!

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#108

Post by ColanR » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

blurbleblurble wrote: post #78

I've been very frustrated in my attempts to raise this issue with the local health department where I live. I was brushed aside, and was told "correlation does not imply causation". I doubt that the person on the phone wanted to get into a conversation about dynamical systems or nonlinear data analysis, so I didn't even go there. Instead I sent a letter full of references to published research, and citing other lette…

I'd tend to agree with you. There's a lot of pharmaceutical money to be made on this crisis, especially if Covid-19 becomes seasonal. Don't want to waste that opportunity by treating it with something cheap like Vitamin D.

In line with how Monsanto covered up studies showing the dangers of Roundup (and faked other studies that indicated no danger, and did a fair bit of astroturfing, iirc), I'd expect to see a lot of misinformation in the future about the ineffectiveness - maybe even the danger? - of Vitamin D supplements.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#109

Post by nradov » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #49

et2o wrote: post #5

Vitamin D has been endlessly promoted as a treatment for many diseases due to evidence from observational studies, but hundreds of millions of dollars in randomized controlled trials have never demonstrated it to be effective for any disease except rickets. There was just a large trial published in JAMA [1] examining its effectiveness for depression given solid observational data. It was not at all effective. The rea…

Guaranteed that not a single study exists where they intentionally exposed people to a live virus (since it's unethical and horrific) so whatever studies you're referring to are completely irrelevant. If not, please link to a relevant study. Depression is not a virus.

A number of influenza challenge studies have been conducted on human subjects.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/influenza-huma...

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#110

Post by conorh » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

conorh wrote: post #89

I've mentioned this before, but my wife is a parathyroid surgeon (parathyroids are the glands that regulate the calcium in your neck) and would beg you to PLEASE monitor your calcium levels if you are supplementing with Vitamin D. She often sees patients on high doses of Vitamin D from well intentioned doctors, but with out of whack calcium levels because of it, and the patients can be very sick without understanding…

There are great questions on this thread, when she is available she will weigh in. I don't have the answers unfortunately! Feel free to reach out to her via her website too if you have very specific questions - she doesn't mind that at all.