Introducing Instagram Reels • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#41

Post by mpalmer » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

bredren wrote: post #34

wojcikstefan wrote: post #20

This flips the typical narrative of "Chinese companies copy our products and their government lets them" on its head. I understand why this is a valid business move, but I think that the sense of moral superiority over China that is so pervasive in conversations with Americans is even less credible now.

Pod Save America interviews Kara Swisher at the end of the most recent episode [1] And at the very end of that they discuss TikTok and China. Swisher is no fan of Facebook, but she also sort of casually describes China as have different “values” than the United States with the implication that the values are not as good and that it is not good for a Chinese-owned TikTok to have so much data on US citizens. It struck…

This fixation on "US moral failings" as a stopping point for the conversation is not especially useful.

Both countries have done and are doing great things. Both countries have done and are doing reprehensible things, and they deny it as best they can.

One country codifies individual liberty as a guiding principle (however imperfectly fulfilled).

The other eschews liberty as a distraction from the national interest, indeed it views the spread of democratic government as a threat.

US values do not require the world to become less free. Can one say the same of China?

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#42

Post by abc-xyz » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

wojcikstefan wrote: post #20

This flips the typical narrative of "Chinese companies copy our products and their government lets them" on its head. I understand why this is a valid business move, but I think that the sense of moral superiority over China that is so pervasive in conversations with Americans is even less credible now.

You could easily make the case that Facebook is copying Twitter (Vine), an American tech company that TikTok copied.

But let’s be real, there’s nothing impressive or innovative about making an Instagram clone with short video clips rather than pictures. All this talk about its magic algorithm is ridiculous. What would be impressive is if they were profitable, which they as far as I know are not. Their scalability is also overrated since other companies are doing all the heavy lifting, and they’re spending hundreds of millions on attracting users to their free video sharing app.

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#43

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #39

pjc50 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, a lot of companies copy each other's products and features, within the American tech scene. The cure - software patents - is worse than the disease; remember Amazon's one click patent? How many team chat apps appeared after Slack, for example?

> The cure - software patents - is worse than the disease Might that not also apply to preventing Chinese companies copying American hardware products or manufacturing processes?

Maybe? Intellectual property is a huge sprawling topic that arguably needs different treatment for different kinds of thing. Do you have specific allegations in mind?

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#44

Post by Kye » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

yalogin wrote: post #40

Kinda lines up well with MS talking with tiktok. Wonder why MS wants tiktok still? The US and India banned them and now Instagram copied them too. I do t know how the inluencers move across social networks but why would users stick to tiktok? In that scenario why would MS want it unless its for an extravagant discount?

They might want the people working on it who know how to work with video.

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#45

Post by cvhashim » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 3:21 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #16

ChefboyOG wrote: post #12

I wonder if this will work as well as Stories did. I mean, technologically it will, sure, but if you start with the customer in mind, Snapchat is not TikTok. Instagram and Snapchat share the same market. Like Facebook, they originated among college students, and became the default platforms of that young adult demographic. Instagram copying Snapchat features is brutal to Snapchat because Snapchat power users were pro…

Anecdata for sure, but my younger aged family members (and their general age group) on TikTok are all on Instagram.

To add to that anecdote, my younger siblings use both IG and TikTok. And Snapchat is pretty much old news according to them.

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#46

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 3:22 PM UTC

bohm wrote: post #10

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you address the problem when you can’t copyright a business model or an idea? It’s very true the value is in the execution, and in a lot of cases, an enormous tech company with effectively limitless resources will always be able to execute better than you. I’m a fan of using regulation against such entities and behaviors, I’m just unsure what the antitrust or monopoly issue is on short social video clips. Y…

where's the problem for the consumer?

One might argue the consumer doesn't get access to products that could be superior due to incumbents choking out innovators (like saplings trying to grow in a forest below mature trees blocking out the sun).

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#47

Post by wojcikstefan » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 4:04 PM UTC

thieving_magpie wrote: post #26

wojcikstefan wrote: post #20

This flips the typical narrative of "Chinese companies copy our products and their government lets them" on its head. I understand why this is a valid business move, but I think that the sense of moral superiority over China that is so pervasive in conversations with Americans is even less credible now.

I think the criticism tends to be more focused on corporate espionage which this is decidedly not. I wouldn't say this is flipping any narrative on its head. I can't even tell the major differences between vine, tiktok, stories, snapchat, and now reels.

That’s a fair point.

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#48

Post by robjan » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

wojcikstefan wrote: post #20

This flips the typical narrative of "Chinese companies copy our products and their government lets them" on its head. I understand why this is a valid business move, but I think that the sense of moral superiority over China that is so pervasive in conversations with Americans is even less credible now.

Tbh Tiktok wasn't the first service to offer short videos. Douyin copied (and eventually bought) Musical.ly and before all of that was Vine.

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#49

Post by robjan » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

csours wrote: post #7

Do it for the Reels? I'm not sure the tone of Instagram really agrees with the content of TikTok, which feels like it picked up where Vine left off.

The picture / TV sharing feature of Instagram is curated while stories tend to be a bit more candid in my experience. Think this is trying to add another level of more transient sharing.

Re: Introducing Instagram Reels

#50

Post by cocktailpeanuts » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

tarr11 wrote: post #9

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're building a business which a large company can just come in and copy by throwing money at it, then you're doing it wrong. You should either have a plan or try hard to come up with one to prevent that situation, or avoid that market altogether. This is business 101 and is the most frequently asked question when you pitch a VC: "What will you do when Google copies you?"

Tiktok is worth about 50 billion dollars. Hard to argue that’s “doing it wrong”

The valuation has nothing to do with "doing it right", especially when it's not even a public company.

Also, TikTok won't just die because of Instagram. Instagram failed so many times with their copycat products. Which is exactly my point. The product will win if a large company can't win simply by throwing money at it.