Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

seattletimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 148 posts

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#101

Post by joncrane »

aphextron wrote: post #33
mkatx wrote: post #25

Reminds me of working at amazon doing prime deliveries and using an Android app where you can create flow charts to automate grabbing hours. The difference is amazon at the time didn't care. We even reported what we were doing as a bug, and recommended a queue system instead, yet we only got automated responses not mentioning the issue at all. This automation included an annoying screen refresh, where you hit back an…

>I think they consider the warehouse drivers like what I used to do temporary, till they get their drone fleets up. Why even bother with drones when you can pay a person $8/HR with zero benefits thanks to collusion with lawmakers to bust unions and stall the minimum wage?

Because drones don't blow whistles, newspapers don't write articles about how drones are mistreated.

Not to mention lowering the overhead of HR, payroll, etc functions.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#102

Post by coldcode »

gonehome wrote: post #52
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

> some shoppers are paying software developers who have created bots — in the form of third-party apps — that run alongside the legitimate Instacart app and claim the best orders for clients Instacart is a real-time market. In real-time markets reaction time is paramount. "Cranking up pressure against app makers and banning violators when they find them" is swimming up a waterfall. The solution is in the market struc…

I'd be surprised if Instacart could pull this off, their app is one of the worst pieces of software I use on a regular basis. Really confusing UX, simple things like looking up previous orders are several clicks and popups away. It's extremely, painfully slow (page loads take seconds and refresh often, I have a gigabit connection). Want to add things you always buy? It'll show you things you often buy in a weird side…

As a mobile developer (and former web developer and even desktop developer going back to the 80's) I find terrible UI/UX embarrassing and unnecessary, but common. Sometimes it's the designers fault (pretty > usability) sometimes it's the product managers fault (same) but more commonly it's the executive's fault (I am more important than you and despite having zero clues about anything, my word goes).

Good design is freaking hard, but not rocket science; it requires the people in charge to understand how to say no and the people doing the work to be clear in why it's a bad idea when it is. While people sometimes revile Jobs for being an asshole, he understood this very deeply.

Instacart could care less, that's obvious to me.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#103

Post by whyhow »

I think this could be fixed by making each job be posted for a fixed block of time, say five minutes. Then it is randomly assigned to one of the shoppers that selected that job. This would remove the incentive around reaction speed and I don't think the customer would care about the slightly increased time for an order.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#104

Post by slfnflctd »

mkatx wrote: post #25

Reminds me of working at amazon doing prime deliveries and using an Android app where you can create flow charts to automate grabbing hours. The difference is amazon at the time didn't care. We even reported what we were doing as a bug, and recommended a queue system instead, yet we only got automated responses not mentioning the issue at all. This automation included an annoying screen refresh, where you hit back an…

> take home pay shouldn't be reduced to how well you can click a touch screen or whether you happen to be aware of app automation

Could not agree more. I attempted to do Instacart at one point, and noped out as soon as I saw this asinine, medieval, 'race to grab an order before someone else' bullcrap. I am not playing that stupid game.

If a large number of drivers are using automation software, Instacart should announce it to everyone and provide basic instructions on how to do this so the playing field is leveled. Make it part of the job. Or, better yet, get rid of this awful mess and institute a more fair system.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#105

Post by dannyr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

> some shoppers are paying software developers who have created bots — in the form of third-party apps — that run alongside the legitimate Instacart app and claim the best orders for clients Instacart is a real-time market. In real-time markets reaction time is paramount. "Cranking up pressure against app makers and banning violators when they find them" is swimming up a waterfall. The solution is in the market struc…

In a time where so many people are looking for jobs, this is gonna be a race to the bottom.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#106

Post by slfnflctd »

mnm1 wrote: post #13
gruez wrote: post #8

Is there a reason why instacart even allows you to pick orders? It seems like this exploit can be stopped just by only letting shoppers look at the first few items of the queue, and limiting the amount of skips.

That could be construed as Instacart assigning orders to their shoppers which would likely make them employees eligible for benefits, something they want to avoid at all costs. This may already be the case in CA regardless of what they do, but they definitely want to avoid paying any benefits for their workers in any state where this is not yet currently the case.

> construed as Instacart assigning orders to their shoppers

Uber & Lyft assign rides to drivers. [You can still cancel them after they ping you, but it's discouraged.] It seems to me like it works extremely well overall compared to what Instacart is doing.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#107

Post by mikro2nd »

1596603709 wrote: post #66
ralmidani wrote: post #56

I’m a software developer who has been enthusiastic about technology pretty much my entire life, but lately I’ve started doubting that our current technological advances are even a net positive for humanity. Reading about things like this (and also about online ads, robocalls, tracking, spyware, ransomware, extortionware, massive environment-ravaging crypto-mining ops, state surveillance, “predictive policing”, fake n…

Then, you will learn about the plight of the farmers. Really, checkout "Super Size Me 2". I don't think there is any industry where its all gravy. Each industry has its own problems, you can only do your best to contribute in its positive growth. Don't be too hard on yourself. Also, you aren't Ghandi (or insert XYZ person here), don't put too much weight on your shoulders. FWIW none of us really matter, this is a sym…

I suspect you're conflating/confusing subsistence farming with industrial "farming". As someone who has lived a "subsistence" lifestyle for a long time, now (decades) one can live really quite well on a "sub-poverty-level income" simply because you're quite decoupled from conventional-money economies. I've heard it called "abundance poverty" (not "abundant poverty", to be sure! :) )

It's worth a disclaimer, though: I practise this subsistence (aka "self-sufficiency") living outside the USA. USmmv.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#108

Post by D895n9o33436N42 »

black_puppydog wrote: post #91
brorfred wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free market idealists also tend to be very against the natural way for workers to consolidate and leverage negotiation power: trade unions.

Yeah, I never understood how "free everything" advocates tend to be so much against the freedom of the individual to refer decisions/actions to a collective when that happens to be the better course of action.

“Free market” isn’t “free everything”. In a free market the bid-ask spread is king. It’s just another kind of tyranny, which, like all such things, benefits those who are set up to take advantage of it, and leaves most others in the dust.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#109

Post by csunbird »

base3 wrote: post #48
dylan604 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taping an envelope to your door clearly visible for the delivery person would still remain contactless. If the envelope is still there when you pick up your items, then no harm in trying

This is what I do. I write INSTACART on it. Everyone loves cash.

How do you secure it?

People steal Amazon packages regularly, I think they would not hesitate to steal something that says "Instacart" on it.

Re: Instacart shoppers besieged by bots that snatch lucrative orders

#110

Post by nogabebop23 »

madsbuch wrote: post #86
MichaelGlass wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"below market" because Instacart (and uber, etc) forgo normal labor law, have by-default but not by-contract full-time workers without any full-time benefits. Companies can achieve great benefit by externalizing cost on society, but should they? (And should they be able to?) e.g. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2019/12/16/is-uber-cheat... https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-...

> Companies can achieve great benefit by externalizing cost on society, but should they? Yes, indeed they should. But the government also needs to claim taxes from companies to pay for these benefits. This concept is not even new, heck this is how most of Europe works.

The entire point of identifying an externalized cost is that it is not being paid for by the beneficiary. You can't both allow it and have them pay for it or it's no longer externalized.
Post reply on HN