Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed • Hacker News Board

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#121

Post by techslave » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

scumcity wrote: post #114

w0mbat wrote: post #50

This guy had such a sweet deal at Google originally, it staggers me that he'd go to these lengths to steal even more. He was getting a massive salarY, bonuses in the millions, and he had persuaded Google to pay him even more money through a side-hustle company of his while remaining an employee. Then he quits and steals their stuff.

Corporate politics likely came into play - he was sidelined at Chauffeur and didn't show up to work, if you read the bloomberg articles. Likely he just wanted to make a difference and politics or corporate stupidity got in the way. The irony is that all these tech companies talk about changing the world. Reality is lawsuits and corporate politics.

you don’t think google has changed the world??

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#122

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

breck wrote: post #112

darkwizard42 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this comment is sarcasm, but if we didn't attempt to reasonably protect trade secrets the opposite of what you are saying would happen. If I invest billions in a form of technology or a superior product and it can just walk out the door to any competitor, I actually have a perverse incentive to milk my existing products as much as possible and AVOID innovation due to the lack of return on it and the abili…

> Not sure if this comment is sarcasm No, I'm generally curious, why do we have trade secret laws? Seems anti-capitalist, anti-freedom, anti-equality to me. There must be people who question them and I'm curious to learn more. > If I invest billions... Yes, if you had billions to invest you should strongly dislike this idea. I'm saying that perhaps trade secret laws are good for billionaires, bad for everyone else. S…

> I'm saying that perhaps trade secret laws are good for billionaires, bad for everyone else.

Sure. In a certain, short-sighted sense, so are any property rights. Trade secret law is important for anyone who wants to invest in the creation of high value intellectual property that won't be protected with patents. Without such protection, there is much less incentive for investment. Billionaires are one group of people who conduct such investment. Startup founders and early employees are another. Another group that may interest you is anyone who invests through the public market in companies that derive value from trade secret protections. And of course anyone who finds value in the purchase of such goods, or any employee of such a company.

I know I personally would not attempt to build high value intellectual property if there were no trade secrets. If I had an idea I thought would be valuable but depended on the scheme, I'd leave and do the work in a country that supported my intellectual property rights.

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#123

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

ganstyles wrote: post #117

s17n wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting sued / prosecuted for switching jobs.

Sounds like he stole a bunch of trade secrets and gave them to his new job, and he got the new job because of his ability to do this. This may not be completely accurate, I haven't been following it too closely, but broad strokes. You must know this behavior is completely different than simply switching jobs?

> Sounds like he stole a bunch of trade secrets and gave them to his new job

His “new job” was a business he cofounded and ran, until he sold it to Uber.

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#124

Post by slavik81 » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:48 AM UTC

foolfoolz wrote: post #113

here is how white collar crime is punished: 756k in restitution. 95k in fines. “theft” of 800k+. gets him a 1.5 year sentence 75% of robberies are for less than 10k. 3% over 250k. yet average sentence is ~10 years. https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu...

Robbery is a violent crime. It's distinguished from pure theft by the use of force (or the threat thereof), which is why it is punished more harshly.

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#125

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:48 AM UTC

s17n wrote: post #96

zerocrates wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the worrying precedent engineers should be unhappy about here?

Getting sued / prosecuted for switching jobs.

> Getting sued / prosecuted for switching jobs.

No, getting sued and prosecuted for stealing trade secrets, using them as a basis for starting one business competing with the employer from which they were stolen, and then selling that business to another competitor of the one from which they were stolen.

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#126

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:50 AM UTC

dumbneurologist wrote: post #16

It seems inconsistent to punish technologists like Levandowski when we don't punish bankers, CEOs, and polluters with the the same enthusiasm.

I'm sure if the DAs could prove that any bankers had broken the law in court, they would be more than happy to prosecute them. The problem is two-fold: it's much less clear which if any laws were broken by the nebulous "bankers," and even if we knew which laws were supposedly broken, it will be harder to prove intention, which in the case of laws without strict liability (most of them), might end up making it hard to punish the person being investigated.

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#127

Post by bduerst » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:51 AM UTC

illustriousbear wrote: post #64

w0mbat wrote: post #50

This guy had such a sweet deal at Google originally, it staggers me that he'd go to these lengths to steal even more. He was getting a massive salarY, bonuses in the millions, and he had persuaded Google to pay him even more money through a side-hustle company of his while remaining an employee. Then he quits and steals their stuff.

People in the security industry have told me that this sort of thing often comes down to ego and self-importance. In Intelligence, people have been caught selling state secrets for 10-20k a pop. The kind of secrets that can land you decades in jail. It makes no sense from a monetary standpoint.

It's likely Levandowski has narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), as is evident by his founding The Way of The Future, which is his own church to worship artificial intelligence.

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#128

Post by ineedasername » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:52 AM UTC

scumcity wrote: post #114

w0mbat wrote: post #50

This guy had such a sweet deal at Google originally, it staggers me that he'd go to these lengths to steal even more. He was getting a massive salarY, bonuses in the millions, and he had persuaded Google to pay him even more money through a side-hustle company of his while remaining an employee. Then he quits and steals their stuff.

Corporate politics likely came into play - he was sidelined at Chauffeur and didn't show up to work, if you read the bloomberg articles. Likely he just wanted to make a difference and politics or corporate stupidity got in the way. The irony is that all these tech companies talk about changing the world. Reality is lawsuits and corporate politics.

Corporate politics don't make you steal from your company. "Sidelined" wouldn't be a defense for direct embezzlement of funds, and it's not a defense here.

If he felt the way you describe, he should have gone off and started his own thing (he did!) maybe sold it for lots to someone else (he did!) and not steal tech from his former employer (fail!)

We all get fed up with work politics, not having our opinions prevail, etc. We don't all walk out the door with countless hours and millions of dollars of work product.

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#129

Post by bduerst » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

w0mbat wrote: post #50

This guy had such a sweet deal at Google originally, it staggers me that he'd go to these lengths to steal even more. He was getting a massive salarY, bonuses in the millions, and he had persuaded Google to pay him even more money through a side-hustle company of his while remaining an employee. Then he quits and steals their stuff.

>bonuses in the millions

Hundreds of millions. As part of breaching his employment agreement by stealing trade secrets, Levandowski had to pay back one of his bonuses, which was $120 million.

I mean, part of paying this type of comp is to retain talent. How much more should Google have paid to retain him? Or was this even preventable?

Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed

#130

Post by 6nf » Wed, Aug 05, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

pauljurczak wrote: post #119

It just proves that if you want to do a crime, do the white collar crime. White gloves treatment will ensue, if you get caught.

Don't steal $5,000 from the liqor store, that will get you arrested at gunpoint and you'll spend many years in prison. Instead steal $50,000,000 and you'll probably still be rich once you pay the fines and complete the community service or home arrest.