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TikTok and the Sorting Hat

eugenewei.com

191–200 of 233 posts

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#191
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western nations don't have those kinds of wet markets, but we have plenty of our own unhygienic, dangerous practices when it comes to food. Take factory farming, for example. Take the mountains of antibiotics we are shoving into factory farmed animals. Take the numerous warnings from experts in biology about how this use of antibiotics is incredibly dangerous, because it has the potential to be a breeding ground for…

Hygiene in China is like in medieval Europe, nowadays in Europe only big cities are dirty which is in the most cases result of mismanagement of mayor/s. In Southeast Europe where I live cities are clean af. The thing that bothers me personally is absurd amount of pets on the streets in my country. When I go for a walk I see like 30 dogs.

Have you been to China? The tier 1 cities like Beijing and Shanghai are positively manicured compared to the average US city (or Paris, for that matter).

Of course it's a huge country and it's not too hard to find an open-air market with meat hanging on hooks or public lavatories that you wouldn't want to enter without a hazmat suit, but people emptying their night soil out the window into the street below is not really a thing anymore.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#192

I installed TikTok out of curiosity after reading this article. I scrolled without stopping for a couple hours and then uninstalled the app. An endless stream of algorithmically curated 30-second videos is pure crack to my brain, apparently. I bet a lot of younger folks with still-developing brains are also unable to resist.

Think of it this way - how long can this network exist without having to deal with political speech ?

And the moment people figure out how to optimize for dispersion through the tik too algo, what would be the result ?

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article goes into this - for people just jumping into the comments: The author states that while western algorithms are based on your follow graph (e.g. Instagram is relatively useless until you follow someone and even then your feed is based on your follower graph, like what people you follow like), TikTok builds this data on video features. This increases TikTok's stickyness because you don't need to do anythin…

YouTube mastered this years ago and that's why it is 3rd most visited website in the world and 2nd most used search engine in the world. I see TikTok as a better version of Vine but I still can't understand if TikTok is so much popular and so much worth why did Twitter shut down Vine? Twitter is like modern MySpace it will fail sooner or later if management doesn't get replaced and if they don't start thinking long t…

I don't know about you, but my YouTube recommendations tend to be pretty useless. I can't remember the last time autoplay found me genuinely compelling content that wasn't already in my subscribed channels.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#194

> How did an app designed by two guys in Shanghai managed to run circles around U.S. video apps Part of the explanation is that they weren't in Shanghai. The founders both worked full time at US tech companies in California when musical.ly was founded. musical.ly may have been founded while they were temporarily in Shanghai, but the founders were not some random people who didn't understand US culture. This is import…

IMO TikTok's draw is that it's the anthithesis to American / western social media culture. It's algorithmic bias towards mainstream, playful, feel good content is a byproduct of Chinese style censorship. What you see on TikTok reflects content that survives the crucibles of Chinese internet filtering. "Creative and Joyful" opiate for the masses. This is an often overlooked aspect of Chinese social media / content fil…

1. the regulation and AI for Douyin and TikTok is completely separate and different. On TikTok I frequently see anti-China videos.

2. From my experience on Chinese social media, the debate on policies and voices on public grievances are common place. When there is a huge public blacklash for something the government is done, it might be filtered to tone down the "heat", but I believe that is to reduce the chance of the incident develop into uncontrolled populism and social unrest. For these incidents, the government usually acts really fast to address the incident. An investigation could be launched, and any government official found with wrongdoing is promptly sacked.

I find for public grievances, the government is already addressing many of them. For others, the government usually acknowledge it after sometime and add it to its working plan. For example, a lot of people were criticizing air quality in early 2010s. By 2013, government's added air quality to its working agenda and released a series of comprehensive plans to address air quality. For the past 8 years, the work on air quality has been consistent. And you can see how much air quality has improved in China. Same thing with poverty, education issues, left behind child, health care etc. So I believe the government does listen to the public, even though public backlash might be filtered at the moment.

A group of people demand change, but changes need time, government and society need time to adjust. The group that demand change could think that its their right to demand change and world should listen. They might use tactics such as massive protests to demand the world's attention. But mass protests in China massively dense cities could cause financial and live lost to others. At that point the group that demand change inadvertently infringing on others right to peace and good health. This is fear. The fear is not about criticisms for the government, but its about hot blooded public demands that grow into populism and hate. And populism creates irrationality in the society that doesn't help to address the issue and might cause more damages. Criticisms are to be addressed in the framework set out by the political system and in an environment that allows rational debate and negotiations.

Filtering on Chinese internet is about controlling populism, any kind of populism. In fact, articles that stoke mindless love for the ccp, personal admiration for xijingping, or hot blooded nationalism are also filtered. Also the platforms will try to remove fake news, spam accounts soliciting money, child pornography, and other illegal content. This stuff seems to be practiced in western internet.

I don't know this is the right way to do things though.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#195

> How did an app designed by two guys in Shanghai managed to run circles around U.S. video apps Part of the explanation is that they weren't in Shanghai. The founders both worked full time at US tech companies in California when musical.ly was founded. musical.ly may have been founded while they were temporarily in Shanghai, but the founders were not some random people who didn't understand US culture. This is import…

> [...] the founders were not some random people who didn't understand US culture...This is important to the article's thesis. This is the opposite of the article's thesis. Musical.ly hit a wall. Only after it was purchased by Bytedance, rebranded as TikTok, and Bytedance poured their magical, cultural-agnostic AI sauce (and ad dollars) did TikTok truly take off. By all indications, this AI magic was wholly created i…

As an AI-focused human, I'm pretty skeptical of the idea that ByteDance' AI made the difference here - not because I dispute that AI can pierce cultural boundaries, but because doing so is a purchasable commodity for a scaled social platform. The magic sauce here was getting the flywheel turning to have users invent content templates native to the medium. Ad dollars, as you mention, and some smart decisions about biases (maybe, as another commenter says, the creative positivity that survives CN censorship).

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#196

> How did an app designed by two guys in Shanghai managed to run circles around U.S. video apps Part of the explanation is that they weren't in Shanghai. The founders both worked full time at US tech companies in California when musical.ly was founded. musical.ly may have been founded while they were temporarily in Shanghai, but the founders were not some random people who didn't understand US culture. This is import…

> [...] the founders were not some random people who didn't understand US culture...This is important to the article's thesis. This is the opposite of the article's thesis. Musical.ly hit a wall. Only after it was purchased by Bytedance, rebranded as TikTok, and Bytedance poured their magical, cultural-agnostic AI sauce (and ad dollars) did TikTok truly take off. By all indications, this AI magic was wholly created i…

Right, I meant that this fact undermines the article's thesis. It's important to consider when evaluating what happened with TikTok.

I think the general point is right (culture can be abstracted), but I am skeptical that ML/AI alone would have been sufficient.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO TikTok's draw is that it's the anthithesis to American / western social media culture. It's algorithmic bias towards mainstream, playful, feel good content is a byproduct of Chinese style censorship. What you see on TikTok reflects content that survives the crucibles of Chinese internet filtering. "Creative and Joyful" opiate for the masses. This is an often overlooked aspect of Chinese social media / content fil…

This doesn't make any sense, I use tiktok and there's plenty of content I wouldn't expect china or america to endorse. There are lots of videos dedicated to communism, capitalism, uyghur muslims, BLM, etc. It's actually fairly open and this type of content gets noticeably boosted by the algorithm if you express interest in it, and gets a ton of likes too. There is also plenty of happy cat videos as well if that's you…

TikTok has been publicly criticized for their censorship and filtering countless times, so I wouldn't doubt that they toned it down a bit in the non-Chinese versions while they're actively getting negative coverage.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO TikTok's draw is that it's the anthithesis to American / western social media culture. It's algorithmic bias towards mainstream, playful, feel good content is a byproduct of Chinese style censorship. What you see on TikTok reflects content that survives the crucibles of Chinese internet filtering. "Creative and Joyful" opiate for the masses. This is an often overlooked aspect of Chinese social media / content fil…

This doesn't make any sense, I use tiktok and there's plenty of content I wouldn't expect china or america to endorse. There are lots of videos dedicated to communism, capitalism, uyghur muslims, BLM, etc. It's actually fairly open and this type of content gets noticeably boosted by the algorithm if you express interest in it, and gets a ton of likes too. There is also plenty of happy cat videos as well if that's you…

Allowable overton window differs between region to region - TikTok international is a business and will respond to local pressures, i.e. west shifted to laxer content restrictions due to MSM reporting of possible censorship last year. But behind the scenes the algorithm is biased towards mainstream content and limits dissemination of fringe / radical views, a must if you want to reach mass eyeballs in China. This is mostly in reference to actual ideology and not the dumb article about censoring ugly/poor, that's branding decision for advertisers. It follows same pattern on Chinese net, dissenting opinions are allowed to exist, either for limited time or exposed to limited eyes, unless gained too much traction in which case it will be removed, or endorsed for political purposes. Social credit has not been expanded to extent west think it does. Nor is Chinese internet as manicured west thinks. It's every bit as much of a shitshow as western internet except janitors come in to sweep up very frequently. If you experience it live, there's shit flinging all over the place. But TikTok itself very much feels like Douyin, lots of regular ppl doing regular things, very little drama or divisive topics because the janitors are proactively working in the background to shape platform sentiment versus west which is more reactive. I'm not saying it's analogous to Chinese net as a whole, but what is allowed to be mainstream and dictate the rhythms of society.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO TikTok's draw is that it's the anthithesis to American / western social media culture. It's algorithmic bias towards mainstream, playful, feel good content is a byproduct of Chinese style censorship. What you see on TikTok reflects content that survives the crucibles of Chinese internet filtering. "Creative and Joyful" opiate for the masses. This is an often overlooked aspect of Chinese social media / content fil…

1. the regulation and AI for Douyin and TikTok is completely separate and different. On TikTok I frequently see anti-China videos. 2. From my experience on Chinese social media, the debate on policies and voices on public grievances are common place. When there is a huge public blacklash for something the government is done, it might be filtered to tone down the "heat", but I believe that is to reduce the chance of t…

You gotta give the masses a sense that the party is doing something for them, usuallly something unrelated to party affairs and politics, like civil criminal cases, that's when the censorship turn "lenient", and these specific cases that got public attention usually get to be solves quickly. But you never see sensitive matters being allowed to even exist, and any account who dares to challenge this boundary is quickly terminated..

That's the magic of censorship, to make the masses feel good, coz ignarance is bliss, the news are harmonious and bad apples are handled by the dear gov.

Re: TikTok and the Sorting Hat

#200
post #15

Some really good points. Does anyone have a good explanation for why Chinese startups seem to have mastered build AI-centric apps while American startups (and large companies) lag behind? Edit: Want to rephrase this to avoid promoting nationalism. Why has ByteDance been so successful? TikTok / Douyin and Toutiao are both really big hits, Facebook hasn't had a comparable ground-up hit despite having top-notch ML engin…

Elon musk recently said China rocks and the US has become more entitled and full of complacement. I kind a have to agree, even my company starting to shift a lot of development work to team in china. Their output and hard work has been amazing.

I predict Chinese tech companies will offer wages equal to American tech companies for foreign workers in under a decade. Tech companies are really going to start feeling pressure in the coming years, and I know headlines will be full of "Nooooooo China can't possibly do this! Their economy is just a bubble!" type stuff. Just like we've been seeing since the early 2000s regarding manufacturing and the alleged fake cities and housing that supposedly "propped up" the economy.

America has gotten way too comfy with the idea that it's number 1 and forgotten that it's not an intrinsic role given to it, but something it had to work for. It's starting to look a little rough.

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