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The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

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Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#251

Post by AshamedCaptain »

acqq wrote: post #239
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not at all . Platform specific does not mean proprietary. In fact, the same vsix also contains a lldb and a mono binary ( which are platform dependent) but these are opensource and in fact build scripts are provided. It is the hidden cpptools binary which has no source that is the problem. And that one is not that well announced. So lot of people think the extension is opensource when the important bits are not.

> It is the hidden cpptools binary which has no source that is the problem. Anybody knows what that binary does?

It _is_ (I dare say) the important part of the extension, as it contains the language server and then more. E.g. all C++ parsing is done on it.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#252

Post by chillee »

zimbatm wrote: post #242

I know that the author wants to use VS Code. But for those reading here and live in the terminal, tmate[1] is truly incredible. Install and type `tmate`, and you have a tmux session that people can SSH into. I have used it countless times and is a great complement to a video sessions. Much better than pixelated fonts in a screen share. [1]: https://github.com/tmate-io/tmate

I don't think tmate allows you to edit text separately, right? It simply allows you to both control the screen.

VSCode Live Share allows users to independently move. So, if you're pair programming and want to check something, you don't need to awkwardly ask to switch files.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#253

Post by codemonkey-zeta »

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #220
codemonkey-zeta wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that they are critical or core, but that they are, in the words of the original author, "the best parts of VScode." All the core and critical features of VScode exist in every other editor. LiveShare and Remote are, as far as I and the author can tell, not replicated by any other editor, and are therefore (subjectively) the "best parts". Whether or not you know anyone who uses the features is irrelevant.

I doubt the author would make the same complaint if Microsoft wrote similar proprietary extensions for Emacs or Vim or Atom. I also doubt they would make the same complaint if JetBrains or someone else wrote the same proprietary extension for VS Code. Neither the first case nor the second would make any of those editors any less open source.

If Microsoft wrote a proprietary extension to emacs that was so compelling many would consider it to be the "best" feature, I think devs would complain. Emacs is way more FOSS than VScode claims to be, so that would be an even worse affront to the philosophy of the editor and community. Maybe you're right about the JetBrains products, but to my knowledge they don't market themselves as open-source to the extent that VScode does.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#254

Post by nova22033 »

jake_morrison wrote: post #59

The tech giants leverage the profits they get from dominating one area to compete in another. You can't build a hyperscale cloud without being able to spend billions. Amazon subsidizes AWS using their e-commerce business, Google with advertising, Microsoft with Windows/Office/etc. Microsoft has a long history of giving things away for free in order to hamstring their competitors. Netscape is the prime example. MS is…

Amazon subsidizes AWS using their e-commerce business,

Pretty sure AWS is more profitable and doesn't need any subsidy.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#255

Post by codemonkey-zeta »

edoceo wrote: post #208
codemonkey-zeta wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that they are critical or core, but that they are, in the words of the original author, "the best parts of VScode." All the core and critical features of VScode exist in every other editor. LiveShare and Remote are, as far as I and the author can tell, not replicated by any other editor, and are therefore (subjectively) the "best parts". Whether or not you know anyone who uses the features is irrelevant.

The person I was replying to used the words "critical" and "core". As to best (admittedly subjective) if they are so good I'd think that one of the 100s of devs I know depend on them. The only close one was Remote - which other editors do too - When I showed that remote drops code to the far end machine we determined that to be too risky - and went back to sshfs. Also, if those extension are so "best" why hasn't a re…

I don't agree with the word choice of the parent, but I think the argument stands if you replace "critical" and "core" with "best". That's why I chose to re-reference the original article.

I'm curious if you've used the live share features personally, and if you have if you've found value in them. I suspect many devs do not like collaborative programming in general, and so may never use them or like them if they have. As someone who thoroughly enjoys collaborative programming, I can tell you that these features are extremely compelling. It's way easier to tell your designer friend to boot up VScode and click on a link to your live app running locally than almost any other solution I've found. It also makes pair programming extremely easy.

I used to use vim and now emacs for everything. I've also used JetBrains products for years. The only reason I ever boot up VScode is for those features. You just can't replicate the experience in any other editor as easily. Every other feature of VScode I've found a similar or better solution in every other editor. I'd be interested to hear any other feature of VScode that you think is as compelling, without parallel in any other editor. I suspect there are few/none.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#256

Post by coldtea »

hvis wrote: post #104
coldtea wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, to actually make money from an editor they created, offer the core and tons of functionality for free and as FOSS, and spend millions employing people to work on, but adding some non-free value-added extensions... (Which even them, they offer free as in beer).

So how does it make them money?

For one, by not allowing someone to just take their code and use it in another editor to offer the same "remote development" etc features using their (MS's) work.

So they control the value from those closed features to only be used to enhance the VSCode and VS brand.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#257

Post by rpdillon »

StevePerkins wrote: post #223
skohan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is exactly the risk: developers become dependent on the VSCode extension ecosystem, while thinking they are safely using only FOSS tools. This is the kind of double-speak which lets MS have the best of both worlds. From a marketing/developer relations perspective, developers think they are using open-source tools. But in actuality, developers are investing in workflows where MS is a critical link in the chai…

> developers are investing in workflows If this discussion were about anything other than text editors, I would take it much more seriously. But text editor popularity cycles every 5 years or so, and the main reason is simply that we get bored and want to try something new. When we "invested" in VSCode over the past few years, we discarded all of our previous investments in Sublime workflows. When we invested in Subl…

Agreed that many developers do this. I'm very averse to relearning all my tooling every couple of years, though, so I tend to treat FOSS very seriously because my investment will last decades. This makes me a bit of an outlier, but it's the reason I invested in building skills in GNU tools, Linux, and Emacs in the 90s, and continue to use those tools every day. For people like me, VSCode is not a great choice, for all the reasons you suggest. For most, I agree that the stakes aren't quite as high, simply because folks are switching tools from time to time for other reasons anyway.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#258

Post by acqq »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #251
acqq wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is the hidden cpptools binary which has no source that is the problem. Anybody knows what that binary does?

It _is_ (I dare say) the important part of the extension, as it contains the language server and then more. E.g. all C++ parsing is done on it.

> all C++ parsing is done on it.

Unless somebody needs to change how the C++ sources are processed, doesn't its mere presence allow the extension to function? I.e. if you modify the source of the extension, wouldn't that modified extension still function with the unchanged binary?

I fail to see, from the perspective of some user of VS Code: what are the issues of not having the sources for the binary that does C++ parsing?

It seems to me comparable to not having a source of Google, but being able to make as many queries as you want (Google wouldn't even allow you that, by default).

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#259

Post by mschuster91 »

esperent wrote: post #211
mschuster91 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under GDPR any kind of data processing falls under the protection umbrella. And that includes the data processing that automatically happens during the creation of a TCP/IP connection - where the recipient party automatically gains knowledge of the IP address of the other side. For a web site itself this is generally fine as it is a technical necessity and intended by the user... however stuff that is not necessary t…

> Under GDPR any kind of data processing falls under the protection umbrella. If processing IPs always required consent, every website, app, and operating system would have to come with a cookie banner. Instead, processing IPs falls under the "required to make things work" banner. I'm sure VSCode processes your IP address for many things such as installing extensions and updates and nobody is arguing they need consen…

> If processing IPs always required consent, every website, app, and operating system would have to come with a cookie banner.

Or, you know, they could just not do data collection or limit to reasonable amounts? The way stuff used to be before ubiquitous broadband connections? As the GDPR intended?

> Instead, processing IPs falls under the "required to make things work" banner. I'm sure VSCode processes your IP address for many things such as installing extensions and updates and nobody is arguing they need consent for those.

Because installing updates is something the user wants and needs (and is recommended by international IT security standard). But telemetry is not something the user wants or needs and the software works fine without the data, therefore it should be opt-in only.

The problem: Microsoft formally has the Ireland subsidiary listed for data processing (as many US tech companies do), and the Irish DPO is notorious for being slow and lax. It will take years for courts to decide on that matter.

Re: The best Parts of Visual Studio Code are proprietary

#260

Post by naikrovek »

GordonS wrote: post #183
lozenge wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full list is here https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/privacy/required-wi...

It's a big page, so I might be missing something - could you point me towards the part where is says it logs keystrokes?

It doesn't. It creates statistics on how you type and what words you use in order to predict your input in order to help you in the future by predicting words you'll use before you type them.

It also doesn't do this for password/passphrase fields.

You can also turn it off, and you're prompted to do so upon OS installation, and the option is always there in the settings application, and you can even tell Microsoft to delete any telemetry it has for you, if you want, and they'll delete it.

Those are the facts. But, it's common to ignore those and just shout "keylogger" in online forums. It is also, somehow, a sign of weakness if you look for updated or changed information which may change your opinions, because no one ever seems to do this. Like, ever.

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