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27-inch iMac gets a major update

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Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#371

Post by byset »

byset wrote: post #314
avianlyric wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of magic fairy dust SSDs are they using that you can't have a sensible amount of storage space at those prices? The kind where Apple can make a 300% or more margin, knowing that people will still pay. Don't think Apple have ever sold SSD upgrades at anything remotely resembling competitive $/TB prices. Clearly they don't need too because people still buy their machines.

As I see it it's basically price discrimination. Apple wants a certain profit margin for the model as a whole. Yet for customers who will never pay prices that will give Apple that full margin, they offer a model at a low price point with a compressed margin, but with a painful aspect that will encourage customers who can pay to go with a higher priced unit — here, the painful thing is the small SSD size. So the idea…

To add to that, it allows them to advertise that "prices start at..." and give an unrealistically low price, which is manipulative, to be sure.

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#372

Post by gumby »

n3k5 wrote: post #134

“SSDs across the line with quadruple the storage” 1/4 TB of storage in the $1800 model, 1/2 TB in the $2300 one. Ugh. (So before the lower-end one had 64GB? [Edit: Nope, 1 TB Fusion Drive, thanks smnrchrds!] That would be FULL just from installing the one game the press release mentions.) What kind of magic fairy dust SSDs are they using that you can't have a sensible amount of storage space at those prices? Looking…

Apart from the margin argument advanced in the comments (which I agree with) this TB3 machine can be upgraded with an external drive directly attached to the PCIe bus (that TB3 interface is faster than your disk Last time I checked so supposedly no performance issue).

You may not find this adequate (actually, I don’t like it either) but it’s not an unreasonable position to take.

Having worked in the hw biz not only do memory sockets add to BOM, they reduce reliability (statistically — not on any one machine, but over your installed base)

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#373

Post by bayindirh »

Veedrac wrote: post #326
bayindirh wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually do heavy data processing but not every day. It can be hundreds of RAW images (50MB/image) or the simulation software I'm working on which can generate GBs of output in 3 seconds if I leave the wrong flags on. In my other workstation I can actually see the big jumps of write accumulation when I do these tasks via SMART (I log the data periodically). So mine was a honest question rather than covert fanboyism…

The Sabrent Rocket 1TB, a reasonable, fast $130 SSD, has an endurance rating of 1665 TBW. To have hit that rating, you'd have to have written 760 GB to it every day over those six years. At 5%, that's still 38 GB a day, every day. If you were spending more to get better endurance, you could have just bought the 2TB version, which would have guaranteed 1422 GB/day. (NB: SSDs suffer write amplification, so if you actua…

I'm not aware about the TBW rating of the Mac's SSD. I didn't drill into its SMART stats. Maybe I should do that. Home workstation's home is on a Samsung 860 Pro, 256GB version, which has 300TBW.

I have a slower storage tier on that computer for big files and archives so, it's only hammered when I really need that speed.

When I bought the Mac, 1TB SSD was top of the line. 2TB was not available for Mid 2014 Macs. Actually, I upgraded everything as apple could while buying it

I'm aware of the dynamics of SSD writes and TBW values. I personally don't write that brutally. Things get hot if I'm processing images or working on my software and need to see some detailed logs or interim results along the way.

If I was using my computer as an ordinary user, I'd not worry about it at all. My family's computer runs on much simpler drives and their write volume is nowhere near me.

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#374

Post by gnicholas »

_ph_ wrote: post #341

The one thing I keep missing on my 5k iMac is some form of video-in. Would be great if I could connect my MB Pro to it and use the iMac as a display. Perhaps even in a window and all mouse and keyboard events to the window get passed to the connected MacBook.

Yeah my 2008 iMac had this functionality, and I was supposed/bummed to hear they got rid of it a few years later. I’d think Apple would keep the feature around, if only to make it easier for people to buy both a Mac laptop and Mac desktop. My wife would totally use one at work if it were easy, and I’d love to have one for us at home. But instead we just get laptops with fans that come on all the time, and SSDs that are far too small.

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#375

Post by hn_check »

okennedy wrote: post #362
hn_check wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN clearly isn't the target market. When HN frets about how it isn't suitable for them, it's just a lot of meaningless bluster and noise. Though let's be real here. I have a 2018 MBP with 256GB of storage. I have XCode, the XCode beta, Logic Pro, virtually the entire Adobe gamut of software, brew and a massive selection of brew packages, every browser, IntelliJ, GoLand, and just a tonne of crap. I've used about 150GB…

I agree that Apple has focused its attention exclusively on the consumer market... and that's a problem. Developers write code for platforms that they're using. This is what drove adoption of Apple hardware in the early 2ks (a POSIX that runs MS Office!), which in turn set set the stage for the iPhone and iOS. Unlike then, Apple now has a good grip on the consumer market: Not targetting iOS with a mobile/tablet relea…

Not entirely sure if you intended to reply to my comment, however just to clarify I'm saying that this particular machine isn't for developers or hackers. Apple has different machines for different markets.

Developers buy MBPs. Industry users buy iMac Pros (which starts at 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD, going up from there) or even the goofy Mac Pro.

"When someone needs a "computer" for their kid to do their homework, that's increasingly going to be an Android/iOS device."

Lots of people do the vast majority of their "computing" on pads and smartphones, but they still like a computer on the desk for..."productivity". For many of those people, this device is more than adequate.

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#377

Post by bayindirh »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #280
bayindirh wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually do heavy data processing but not every day. It can be hundreds of RAW images (50MB/image) or the simulation software I'm working on which can generate GBs of output in 3 seconds if I leave the wrong flags on. In my other workstation I can actually see the big jumps of write accumulation when I do these tasks via SMART (I log the data periodically). So mine was a honest question rather than covert fanboyism…

I would be interested in hearing more about how you log / see this - a real world case always beats benchmarks

Actually, my method is very simple. Every 10 minutes I log the Total LBAs Written attribute from the SSD to a log file alongside a long time stamp.

Periodically I graph the data with GNUPlot. There's a slight slope most of the time. In some regions there are jumps. These are generally when I seriously work with my software, generating logs and other output.

System is on another SSD and swap is on a high performance HDD so, they do not affect the graphs I'm getting.

That jumps helped me to catch two KDE bugs. One was an isolated case with akonadi. Other one was reported and possibly KRunner's bookmarks extension will see some more revisions to eliminate disk trashing.

Addendum: When I have spare time, I'd write a small HTML/JS file to get the data from log file and graph it interactively. A both fun and useful project.

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#378

Post by satya71 »

n3k5 wrote: post #134

“SSDs across the line with quadruple the storage” 1/4 TB of storage in the $1800 model, 1/2 TB in the $2300 one. Ugh. (So before the lower-end one had 64GB? [Edit: Nope, 1 TB Fusion Drive, thanks smnrchrds!] That would be FULL just from installing the one game the press release mentions.) What kind of magic fairy dust SSDs are they using that you can't have a sensible amount of storage space at those prices? Looking…

The only constraint of price is that must be greater than cost. After that price is determined by what the customer is willing to pay based on the value they receive.

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#379

Post by veets »

osrec wrote: post #248
smnrchrds wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They learned their lesson and made storage, RAM, etc. non-user replaceable in newer versions. You used to be able to buy a Mac from Apple and upgrade its RAM at a reasonable price on your own. Not anymore.

Why do their customers tolerate this?! I know some people love Apple (their hardware does look great), but this is extremely annoying.

I have tried linux on a laptop and the battery life was abysmal (it was an older Thinkpad X1). With macos (which I don't particularly like) I get a solid dev experience and reliable battery life. Plus, their hardware is untouchable IMO.

I have a linux desktop that works well, but I can't always work on it unfortunately.

Re: 27-inch iMac gets a major update

#380

Post by askafriend »

_ph_ wrote: post #341

The one thing I keep missing on my 5k iMac is some form of video-in. Would be great if I could connect my MB Pro to it and use the iMac as a display. Perhaps even in a window and all mouse and keyboard events to the window get passed to the connected MacBook.

This is the reason I went Mac Mini + LG 5k display.

It's much more expensive but I needed to be able to hook in my work laptop to a 5k display while working and switch easily to my home setup with a single cable when I want to.

Ended up being perfect! It's paying off big time with COVID and WFH.

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