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Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

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Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#31

Post by skratlo »

gregschlom wrote: post #25
skratlo wrote: post #22

There is so much bullshit and lies about Qt5, I won't bother finishing that piece of crap: Erik Engheim: Qt5 is 5GB Actual fact (on arch linux): qt5-base = 64.07 MiB, qt5-declarative = 24.72 MiB, qt5-quickcontrols2 = 8.56 MiB > Try having somebody look at a Qt design you made. “Oops sorry you need a 5 GB download to do that. Oh and btw you need to register an account on a website, login and search really hard to find…

There might be some confusion about Qt the runtime (ie: compiled binaries) and the Qt SDK for development. Last I remember (admitedly, >8 years ago) the Qt SDK certainly was a multigigabyte download. In this case, you need the SDK to develop a UI with Qt, so I think the author's comparison is fair. > Consider Qt Creator IDE which is quite minimalist, without Qt which it requires to run, requires over 200 MB Actual fa…

Yeah well, but that's because of the env. you chose to use, that qt5-base etc. I mentioned? it includes header files. Add your compiler of choice and you're good to go. I've no idea what "SDK" are you talking about, but honestly, I'm pretty sure that includes tons of documentation, images, multimedia, etc.

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#32

Post by jcelerier »

gregschlom wrote: post #25
skratlo wrote: post #22

There is so much bullshit and lies about Qt5, I won't bother finishing that piece of crap: Erik Engheim: Qt5 is 5GB Actual fact (on arch linux): qt5-base = 64.07 MiB, qt5-declarative = 24.72 MiB, qt5-quickcontrols2 = 8.56 MiB > Try having somebody look at a Qt design you made. “Oops sorry you need a 5 GB download to do that. Oh and btw you need to register an account on a website, login and search really hard to find…

There might be some confusion about Qt the runtime (ie: compiled binaries) and the Qt SDK for development. Last I remember (admitedly, >8 years ago) the Qt SDK certainly was a multigigabyte download. In this case, you need the SDK to develop a UI with Qt, so I think the author's comparison is fair. > Consider Qt Creator IDE which is quite minimalist, without Qt which it requires to run, requires over 200 MB Actual fa…

> Probably depends on the platform, I wouldn't be surprised if it was > 200 MB on OS X. But either way, 100 vs 200, same order of magnitude

keep in mind that Qt Creator comes with a full clang for its C++ code model which is already 40-50 megabytes at least ; no decent C++ IDE can skip that.

Regarding the Qt SDK size, what can take gigabytes is installing it for all android & iOS ... ABIs / versions.

for a fast SDK installation experience, I recommend aqtinstall:

    $ pip install aqtinstall
    $ time python -m aqt install 5.15.0 linux desktop -O ~/Qt/
    10,43s user 2,14s system 153% cpu 8,213 total
    $ du -csh ~/Qt/5.15.0
    592M 5.15.0
(but really, just install e.g. qtbase5-dev on Debian systems has 99.9% of what is needed for most GUI desktop apps and is ~13 megabytes: https://packages.debian.org/sid/qtbase5-dev what takes space is 3D engines, webviews, multimedia apis, etc... but an awful amount of apps don't need those)

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#33

Post by skratlo »

yakz wrote: post #29
rat9988 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I tried programming with Qt I remember downloading in the order of Gigabytes too.

Also: "From February onward, everyone, including open-source Qt users, will require valid Qt accounts to download Qt binary packages." - https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-offering-changes-2020

Yes, binary packages are convenience, you could be paying for those if you're lazy to build the open source from the source.

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#34

Post by qppo »

How well does godot support dynamic/programmatic layout (w.r.t odd aspect ratios and resizing), localization, and accessibility?

I'd also take issue with the notion that 2D UI frameworks based on game engines are more performant than their alternatives, because game engines are optimized for 3D graphics and often struggle with performance once your UI state becomes reasonable large.

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#35

Post by katktv »

skratlo wrote: post #33
yakz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: "From February onward, everyone, including open-source Qt users, will require valid Qt accounts to download Qt binary packages." - https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-offering-changes-2020

Yes, binary packages are convenience, you could be paying for those if you're lazy to build the open source from the source.

Which is pretty cynical if you ask me, as most open source toolkits are distributed as binaries for free, to be accessible by everyone.

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#36

Post by mwcampbell »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #9
qw3rty01 wrote: post #6

This just reads like a godot advertisement...it only has good things to say about godot and only bad things to say about any other library. It's really hard to take the article seriously with so much blatant bias. It also seems to leave out any technical information that a developer using the engine would want to know, like how well it integrates with existing code, what paradigms it uses compared to other UI engines…

I made this comment when someone was talking about using GLFW and IMGUI to make an application with a openGL window and I think it applies here too, because it is easy to overlook the things that you will eventually need that are not trivial to add once you go down the road of using tools made for only very basic UIs. "I would bet that the easiest thing would be FLTK. You can use system colors and make an openGL wind…

Unfortunately, FLTK falls short in at least one important way: it doesn't implement accessibility, e.g. for blind users with screen readers. Godot and immediate-mode GUIs have the same problem.

If I'm not mistaken, the most lightweight cross-platform UI toolkit that draws its own widgets (unlike wx or SWT) and implements accessibility is sciter [1]. It's a good thing the antivirus vendors (who seem to be sciter's biggest customers) want to sell to governments.

[1]: https://sciter.com/

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#37

Post by malkia »

How would this work on 2 or 3 monitors. Asking this, since any serious content creator tool end up using windows across monitors, and there you need good docking support.

Qt has some, but not all the way there, like Visual Studio has (but there are some good alternatives for Qt).

The other two pain points (for DCC): - HDR support (again across monitors) - Hi-DPI support (and again across monitors)

Once you start hitting issues above (among many small others), you realize how much there is to add (wacom tablet support? What next?)

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#38

Post by stolen_biscuit »

skratlo wrote: post #22

There is so much bullshit and lies about Qt5, I won't bother finishing that piece of crap: Erik Engheim: Qt5 is 5GB Actual fact (on arch linux): qt5-base = 64.07 MiB, qt5-declarative = 24.72 MiB, qt5-quickcontrols2 = 8.56 MiB > Try having somebody look at a Qt design you made. “Oops sorry you need a 5 GB download to do that. Oh and btw you need to register an account on a website, login and search really hard to find…

I don't understand why you've gotten upset, the author isn't lying and I also don't believe they're trying to slander Qt

Re: Making Advanced GUI Applications with Godot

#40

Post by m3at »

Shared404 wrote: post #30

I did an Ask HN [1] about this topic a little while ago. Most relevant comment [2], from gunibert is here: The problem in a framework like GoDot is, that it is meant for Games. A game renders screens in 30/60 fps. A Desktop application like a Gtk application does exactly nothing if you dont interact with the application. If you click a button only the button gets re-rendered. This is more efficient then using somethi…

As mentioned in the article Godot has a low processor usage mode:

> If true, the engine optimizes for low processor usage by only refreshing the screen if needed

https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/classes/class_os.html...

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