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The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

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451–460 of 503 posts

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an excuse to be lazy and not try to establish truth at all, which is way worse than getting the 'truth' wrong sometimes.

I think this is the core political question of our age, myself.

I tend to agree with you there.

I am starting to think that ultimately, though, the answer is one that no one particularly wants to admit because it boils down to two unpalatable options, one distributed and unregulated; the other centralized and regulated.

1) Unregulated: No one is the arbiter of truth, in which case a haphazard group of marketers, propagandists and psyops peddlers reign supreme. This eventually/inevitably consolidates into an organized propaganda outlet.

2) Regulated: A group is selected based on some credential or merit and you end up with essentially a Technocracy. More or less what the "Elites" boogeyman is. If the Technocracy is staffed by scientists and engineers, then it might be the best possibility available. But this also eventually consolidates and leads to an erosion of the eligibility credentials and then non-expert people will gain positions within it for ulterior motives.

If the technocratic group is limited in scope of what "truths" it can decide on, then that is potentially a reasonable compromise.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#452
post #449
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Clinton was allegedly a guest on Epstein's island according to recently unsealed court documents. Try to find any mention of this in recent NYT reporting: https://www.google.com/search?q=clinton+epstein+maxwell&tbm=... Is this "The Truth"?

There are plenty of mentions for Bill Clinton: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&sxsrf=ALeKk01S6XwWBraA...

But, crucially, no mentions of him _staying on the island_. If this was Trump, there'd be wall-to-wall 24x7 saturation coverage.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#453
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those 1700 journalists and 150 stories per day go through their much smaller editorial board before they get published. There can be costly legal ramifications if they do not have their editors carefully go over stories. Stop giving them excuses.

I'm not excusing anything; I'm just saying that a single bad article from 7 years ago from a single reporter and the newspaper not appropriately rectifying it – which is certainly a very bad thing – is not a good reason to dismiss the entire newspaper out of hand, especially not considering the scale of the NYT. Things are just not that black/white.

The UFO article I mentioned was barely a week ago.

There's loads of these. I'm half-expecting a bat boy article as a followup.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#454

When I first saw google books and google scholar I thought 'Oh my god, this is amazing, this will change everything!'. I imagined that a decade or two in the future, being able to read pretty much any book or paper I wanted for a reasonable monthly fee. The search functionality was an absolute godsend! Now? Google books has been pretty much sidelined and abandoned. I feel like I've watched the second library of Alexa…

Google Books in 2004 [1], Google Scholar in 2004 [2], and Google Patents in 2006 [3] felt like the golden age of Google’s mission to “organize the world’s information and and make it universally accessible and useful” [4]. If you think back to the state of the web at the time, those services were expansive in their scope and ambition when they were launched. I give Google credit for continuing to run and maintain them to this day.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Books

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Scholar

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Patents

[4]: https://www.google.com/search/howsearchworks/mission/

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh, yes, I think that may have been the case. I still think if the author just put "might" instead of "would," then the article would be quite accurate. However, to your point, I find myself doing that sometimes without even realizing it and I wonder what drives it internally and externally.

Me too, I think to some extent everyone does it and learning to recognize your own motivated reasoning and pushing back against it is an important way to think better. I think motivated reasoning is probably the default behavior (and once you start looking for it, you see it everywhere). This post dives into it a bit: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/34XxbRFe54FycoCDw/the-bottom... Just because an argument comes from…

This answer you've written is one of the reasons why I keep coming back to HN. I think I expect most online conversations to devolve into ad hominem attacks, whether towards me or the third party to whom we refer, and yet this didn't. I worried it may become antagonistic, but on the contrary, I feel grateful for what you've said and how you've given me more to think about.

I often prefer dialogue to debate—a conversation of cooperative learning instead of competitive proving.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mistake to judge an organization on one, or even a handful of incidents. There should be a pattern of inaccuracy and bias before you "cancel" a news source. This is one of the unsung problems of the modern world, the growing impossibility of keeping an accurate "reputation" in your brain. Virtually everyone and everything has been accused of being evil, in general, or specifically. It's no longer good enough t…

Why is it a mistake to judge on one incident? If I worked with someone who seemed like a professional, and then one day he spat on me and never apologized and denied he did so, I'd probably judge that guy even though it was just one incident. There is a difference between making a mistake or being wrong while trying to be right, and intentionally doing something bad or refusing to acknowledge error. Everyone is in th…

The NYT has 4,320 employees. If one of them spat on you, never apologized, and denied he did so, would you then judge every employee of NYT the same as you judge that one person?

Edit for clarity, since I'm getting downvoted: My point is that the analogy is not great. You can judge one person for their actions directly towards you. It isn't necessarily reasonable to judge a large number of people by the actions of a single person or small subset of the group, especially when the actions of the NYT are not directed at you specifically, which is pretty different to someone spitting on you.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> scientifically discredited by the mid-19th century I mean the science is bunk but it wasn't "discredited" in the sense that you mean among the scientific community or the policy community across the West who enacted policies based on it well until after the mid 20th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States > the Nazis may have adopted it, but that's proof that they weren't motivated by a…

> I mean the science is bunk Since you dismiss the existence of objective, non-ideological facts, isn't that necessarily your position on all science? > but it wasn't "discredited" in the sense that you mean among the scientific community or the policy community across the West who enacted policies based on it well until after the mid 20th century Yes, phrenology was discredited , and why you posted a link about euge…

> Since you dismiss the existence of objective, non-ideological facts, isn't that necessarily your position on all science?

I already said I believe in an objective set of values so for you to say this means you've clearly missed the entire point of the discussion.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time the media reported on an event and subject where I knew more than them, I was in my late 20s (I think you have to be at least that old to know a lot about something ... could explain why younger people seem to have such blind faith in popular narratives). I was absolutely shocked by the basic inaccuracy and skewed writing in literally every single story that was written, every single video that was rec…

As someone involved in the Bitcoin space, I can relate. Highly-technical subject + lots of nuance + financial journalism = absolute disaster for the truth.

love ur dashboard bro :)

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too, I think to some extent everyone does it and learning to recognize your own motivated reasoning and pushing back against it is an important way to think better. I think motivated reasoning is probably the default behavior (and once you start looking for it, you see it everywhere). This post dives into it a bit: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/34XxbRFe54FycoCDw/the-bottom... Just because an argument comes from…

This answer you've written is one of the reasons why I keep coming back to HN. I think I expect most online conversations to devolve into ad hominem attacks, whether towards me or the third party to whom we refer, and yet this didn't. I worried it may become antagonistic, but on the contrary, I feel grateful for what you've said and how you've given me more to think about. I often prefer dialogue to debate—a conversa…

Oh, and the LessWrong article confused me lol. I'll take another look when I'm in a more calm, less rushed, state of being :-D

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#460

Please get a library card if you wish to read quality (often paywalled) news sources for free. Your tax dollars (going to your city/county) are already paying for access. Best of all, it's digital. Your library card number will grant you huge access to all of this digitally and in near real time (e.g., the databases are updated daily).

It's a lot easier now that there are websites, and even mobile apps, tied to library systems. My local library system offers some impressive stuff like current and past newspapers, magazines, Associated Press videos, etc.
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