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Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

theintercept.com

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Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#141

Post by Nasrudith »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #113

Slightly off topic: Why don't cell networks get shut down more often during large protests etc.? It seems that police use cell phones for internal communications pretty extensively -- Even when there are encrypted radio systems or channels. My guess is that UX of encrypted radio is generally terrible, and that it's a nightmare to distribute keys to all multiple agencies that might be operating in an area. So departme…

Well for one it would be very disruptive and hard to justify. It would interfere with 911 and calling family and would scare and inconvenience the populace turning them against them and a certain safe 'status quo' apathy is what they depend upon. Social dynamics aside more people on the streets makes their job harder regardless of their demeanor - which they will if they need to go in person to check on others.

The disruption to service would also be very expensive to businesses which would be encourage flight.

"And we lost this multi-million dollar contract sale because the cell service to reach us anywhere went down for three days, a worse case for the company than even if rioters burnt down the whole office. Why are we located in this shithole again?"

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#142

Post by notabee »

inetknght wrote: post #82
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fund schools. Hire tech capable teachers that care. Funding only works if it's toward this specific end.

> Hire tech capable teachers that care. I know teachers who make and have to pay out-of-pocket for supplies. Good luck attracting tech talent with that salary. So, again: fund schools.

Funding alone won't fix the decades of neglect, social norms built around that dysfunction, and the incompetent leadership many schools systems suffer with. But it's a necessary first step. If you don't fix the other pieces though, even higher pay won't keep the people around who should be there. I have known some teachers who tried their damnedest and were very competent, but burned out quickly.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#143

Post by TeaDrunk »

jccc wrote: post #121
jpollock wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it has an effect. In a tight labour market, any restriction on the number of people who are willing to do your work will increase your costs. Eventually, you might start to ask "why" and change some things to bring the costs back in line. For example, I know lots of people (including me), who refused interviews with Uber post harassment revelations.

I understand that in principle it could have an effect, and I understand how. I'm questioning whether that market for developers really is tight enough to matter, whether employers and top policy makers would even notice that some number of people withhold their skills in protest. I'm wondering if perhaps there are other more powerful ways for these developers to exert their influence, whether in these positions or o…

I was under the impression that lack of talent does matter- if top talent doesn't want to work for you, you can't replace top talent with less-top talent and expect to maintain your competitive edge. Especially if said top talent is now working for a competitor.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#144

Post by sargun »

jdefr89 wrote: post #19

Hey. Someone who briefly worked on the Stingray team here. I left the company that develops the stingray (who’s name is mentioned in the article but I shall not say it) because I didn’t feel comfortable with the ethics of how it could potentially be easily abused without legal permission and/or repercussion. I fear these technologies will become more commonly used against Americans by low level law enforcement withou…

Just curious, how well were you compensated? Did you work on the radio side doing embedded stuff / math, or server software?

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#145

Post by triceratops »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #113

Slightly off topic: Why don't cell networks get shut down more often during large protests etc.? It seems that police use cell phones for internal communications pretty extensively -- Even when there are encrypted radio systems or channels. My guess is that UX of encrypted radio is generally terrible, and that it's a nightmare to distribute keys to all multiple agencies that might be operating in an area. So departme…

> Why don't cell networks get shut down more often during large protests etc.?

What problem are you trying to solve, exactly?

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#146

Post by blue52 »

sschueller wrote: post #118
AftHurrahWinch wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Portland hundreds of demonstrators used the mesh-networking app Bridgefy, and some affinity groups used goTennas which even served streaming movies, music, and documentaries that spoke to the revolutionary tenor.

How does bridgefy make money? It's not open source. The website leads to a level 3 default page. How do you know the feds don't own it?

During uncertain times like this we need to be asking the hard questions. Always use protection like a VPN and iptable when connecting to unknown/untrusted networks.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#147

Post by nick_kline »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #34

Pro-tip: If you want fairly good OPSEC when going to a protest, get a burner Android phone, put it on airplane mode with WIFI only. Then purchase a couple of Comcast / Xfiniti logins off the web, and use those to connect to "xfiniti-wifi" hotspots. Most cities have them, the speeds are fairly decent too. We're truly living in the panopticon

Won't your wifi mac address be a unique identifier? Did google start doing wifi mac address randomization?

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#148

Post by nick_kline »

ghaff wrote: post #122
sbierwagen wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't bring a cell phone to a protest?

It would certainly seem as if far and away the easiest and best opsec is to not have your phone on you or at least not turned on. Have people really become so dependent on their phones that the thought of being somewhere without one doesn't even come up as an option? I'd certainly at least turn my phone or a burner phone off before depending on not being compromised.

People are pretty dependent on their cell phones. It's our maps, ways out of places. You can even do bus tickets on them. It's our way to call for help, see if someone is okay. So it's weird not to have my phone on me.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#149

Post by hammock »

notyourday wrote: post #88
alain94040 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this possible?

Unless you can physically disconnect the battery, your phone may not actually be fully off. For example, on my Android phone should I drain the battery into oblivion ( let the phone die ) and let it sit for about a week in that state, takes about 90 seconds to become fully functional to the lock screen from the moment it is plugged into a charger. On the other hand if I do hard power off of a phone followed by poweri…

It's called warm boot vs. cold boot (or soft boot vs hard boot)

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#150

Post by zamadatix »

chocolatkey wrote: post #115
mixmastamyk wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most folks won't be aware of an option unless it is default.

On my Samsung Galaxy S10e (Android 10) it is the default

That's for probing only, randomization on connection is accessible via developer options only.
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