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Thomas Sowell interview

city-journal.org

101–110 of 457 posts

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#101

Nonconformist is exactly how I wouldn't describe Thomas Sowell, whose economics and ideology is that of conformist conservative cliche. He's the kind of charlatan who'll tell you that property law that benefits rich folks is magical and natural but other law like taxation law is artificial regulation. I highly recommend Dean Baker's "The Conservative Nanny State" for a good debunking of this nonsense.

Any other book recommendations for a counter to Sowell's Basic Economics? It would be a good exercise to read his book and an alternative.

For this community? Das Kapital. For something less rigorous and more accessible, probably something by Richard Wolff, but I'm not familiar enough w/ his writings to recommend anything specific.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that somebody's pre tax income is "their earnings" in the first place is precisely the problem. The tax you pay doesn't belong to you and you didn't earn it - the law is very clear on this.

But that's not saying only the rich earn their wages which is what you claimed he said. He's saying everyone earns the wages they work for. Claiming that something is true simply because of law is fairly short sighted. There have been and continue to be unjust laws worldwide.

Claiming that something is right because it exists as it is under the current system without further justification is equally, if not more short sighted. It's where "plainspeaking" and begging the question combine into a kind of catnip for people that want reinforcement for their impulse towards the status quo. I'm not familiar with this particular quote, but I've read one of his recent books and it was full of this sort of thing.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#103
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you define “conservative” as “wrong”, then I understand your point, but then your statement is trivial - it’s a statement of opinion, “sowell is wrong”, masquerading as evidence and using 12 times as many words as needed.

Yes, I am giving my opinion on Thomas Sowell in a post about Thomas Sowell. My post is very short, like a third of it is a quote from him. And I didn't define conservative as wrong, I said he is a standard, non-special conservative AND wrong. What are your actual disagreements?

You're offering commentary, not a counterargument. What specifically is Sowell wrong about?

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#104
post #15
post #2

I’ve been reading a lot of his books lately, I cannot recommend enough. He does take a conservative approach to a lot of topics but the way he breaks things down helps you understand why. His book Basic Economics taught me more than any economics classes did in school.

> He does take a conservative approach to a lot of topics... Sowell's book A Conflict of Visions: Idealogical Origins of Political Struggles [1] is, ironically, a very good starting point in understanding what makes Sowell "conservative" (the Constrained Vision) vs "progressive" (the Unconstrained Vision). I think this is the work that impressed Steven Pinker. The categories get really messy, for example when he desc…

Just about every Marxist on the planet believes that we are "made better by social structure", so I think that characterization of what Marxists vs. non-Marxists believe is unhelpful.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#105

Nonconformist is exactly how I wouldn't describe Thomas Sowell, whose economics and ideology is that of conformist conservative cliche. He's the kind of charlatan who'll tell you that property law that benefits rich folks is magical and natural but other law like taxation law is artificial regulation. I highly recommend Dean Baker's "The Conservative Nanny State" for a good debunking of this nonsense.

> property law benefits everyone in a society like the U.S., who has more than precisely zero possessions...? That way of thinking is a common mistake. This statement is valid for some property law like, you cannot steal. But a law that eliminates property tax would actually harm land owners with small amounts of land. Here is an analogy, if the price of bread doubles, you are not benefiting because you happen to have a loaf of bread in your cupboard. Owning stocks is another example of this.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#106
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be interesting to see where you think he's wrong especially where his arguments are based on some uncompromising statistical facts.

His argument that Donald Trump would be a better choice for President than Hillary Clinton because the former would be easier to remove from office than the latter, arguing specifically that "congressional Republicans would [not] automatically spring to his defense, if he overstepped the line". Doesn't seem like a great example of keen political judgment in hindsight.

Mitt Romney was the first Senator, of any party, to cross party lines to vote for an impeachment of a President of their own party. Many Republican legislators immediately and publicly renounced Trump's comments[0] regarding delaying the election.

The [R]'s can read the wind and since their base is tied to the hip to Trump at the moment they'll play ball on day to day things and have his back on most things, but they are all quite aware he is a temporary force that will be spent eventually and the last thing they want to do is give him the permanent keys to the kingdom.

[0]:https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/politics/trump-election-tweet...

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#107

Nonconformist is exactly how I wouldn't describe Thomas Sowell, whose economics and ideology is that of conformist conservative cliche. He's the kind of charlatan who'll tell you that property law that benefits rich folks is magical and natural but other law like taxation law is artificial regulation. I highly recommend Dean Baker's "The Conservative Nanny State" for a good debunking of this nonsense.

Any other book recommendations for a counter to Sowell's Basic Economics? It would be a good exercise to read his book and an alternative.

I'd second the other response's recommendation of Richard Wolff's work. He's a marxist and democratic socialist, so read his work understanding his perspective in relation to your own, whatever that might be. That being said, I found his book Competing Economic Theories on neoliberalism, keynsianism, and marxism to be very fair to all sides.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#108
post #51
post #37

Thomas Sowell has had a huge impact on me and my views on economics. I'm from a poor working-class background and am often irritated by the needless language barriers of academics. > “Too many academics write as if plain English is beneath their dignity,” Sowell once said, “and some seem to regard logic as an unconstitutional infringement of their freedom of speech.” Sowell is unique in this respect. He's book, "Basi…

I wish other writers would take this to heart. Reading The New Yorker it’s as if their language is a shibboleth and if they didn’t use it, it would alienate their audience for using average language, yet they are the same people who pontificate and pretend they advocate for the lower classes.

His books are great for the mass of people who are functionally illiterate, who want to learn to read.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#109
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What objective measure of conformism are you using?

Sum of squares of the differences on all important issues between you and the average? So basically the same formula as variance in probability theory.

Well I mean at that level what counts as a difference and what’s the measure of that distance. I like that this is an attempt to define it even if is isn’t op and we do t actually have any actual numbers, past or present for comparison.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

His comment holds true if you don't assume that every single 'rich' person did not 'earn' their wealth, and only gained due to corruption. Not sure how 'ideology' is constructing any sort of counter argument to any of Sowell's arguments that I'm aware of.

>> Here's a typical Sowell quote: "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money."

>> Why did the rich man "earn" it but not the poor man? Why is it "somebody else's" when it's the poor man's money but not when it's the rich man's money?

>> The answer is ideology.

> His comment holds true if you don't assume that every single 'rich' person did not 'earn' their wealth, and only gained due to corruption.

No it doesn't. His comment holds true only if you assume the current economic system that created the rich and poor men is right and just. For instance: the rich man is rich typically because he owns the capital (which can be owned at massive scale) and "earns" its profits. The laborers that operate that capital for him are much poorer than he is, because all they "earn" are wages for their time (which cannot scale). Sure a particular rich man theoretically can loose his shirt (but so can laborers, for different reasons), but the general relationship will remain the same between those groups under the current system.

It's a deeply ideological assumption that the labor that enables profit is entitled to none of it (as such), and the owner (who may have enabled none of it) is entitled to all of it. Admittedly, it's an ideological assumption so fundamental to current society that it can be as hard to see as a mountain you're standing on.

> Not sure how 'ideology' is constructing any sort of counter argument to any of Sowell's arguments that I'm aware of.

I think the point is it's not much of an argument if it's little more than the output of certain ideological assumptions (e.g. assume P therefore P).

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