The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free • Hacker News Board

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#141

Post by sandoooo » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

imustbeevil wrote: post #138

marcus_holmes wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, who judges whether something is true?

The government, scientists, experts in various fields, people who have proven to tell the truth in the past, etc. You obviously still have your own ability to determine what fits your model of the universe and what doesn't. These are just groups of people more likely to have access to information that you might not. You don't have to trust anyone, but in a system where someone has to judge what is true, these groups…

>The government, scientists, experts in various fields, people who have proven to tell the truth in the past, etc.

But how has it been implemented in practice?

If you look at the raw numbers, generally we rely on the lowest bidders amongst Facebook/Google/Twitter's third-world-country subcontractors, as well as the Chinese government.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#142

Post by andyjohnson0 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

loriverkutya wrote: post #42

Lies are not free, they are paid by ads and a complete industry is built on keeping this going. The price of the ads are built into the price of the product/service you buy, so we are basically paying for the lies too, it’s just not as obvious as paying to get through the paywall.

I think the meaning is pretty clear. Dishonest/misleading sources of information are intentionally designed to have a vary low barrier to entry, while trustworthy sources are forced to use off-putting paywalls due to the inherent higher cost of what they do. Hence the asymmetry.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#143

Post by giancarlostoro » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #133

Dotnaught wrote: post #124

The linked article concludes: "Creators must be compensated well. But at the same time we have to try to keep things that are important and profound from getting locked away where few people will see them. The truth needs to be free and universal." Let's also consider whether lies should be made more expensive. Free costs more than it's worth.

As always, who judges whether something is true?

Another fun one I ask when someone brings up Snopes: Who snopes the snopes? In other words how do we know they are not being biased or thorough enough?

I am not saying everything there is wrong but I have ran into weird biased articles before.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#144

Post by vorpalhex » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:51 PM UTC

imustbeevil wrote: post #138

marcus_holmes wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, who judges whether something is true?

The government, scientists, experts in various fields, people who have proven to tell the truth in the past, etc. You obviously still have your own ability to determine what fits your model of the universe and what doesn't. These are just groups of people more likely to have access to information that you might not. You don't have to trust anyone, but in a system where someone has to judge what is true, these groups…

Often times the truth is not popular, even amongst those who should be protecting it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#145

Post by shadowgovt » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:51 PM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #143

marcus_holmes wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, who judges whether something is true?

Another fun one I ask when someone brings up Snopes: Who snopes the snopes? In other words how do we know they are not being biased or thorough enough? I am not saying everything there is wrong but I have ran into weird biased articles before.

They are biased, but if the facts are accurate, that's irrelevant.

A trustworthy organization doing fact checking on one side of the aisle while ignoring inaccuracies from the other side is preferable to no fact-checking at all. Question is: where is Republican Snopes? It's a free information market; why is nobody doing it?

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#146

Post by devman0 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

irontinkerer wrote: post #127

The first link in the article is not a "lie". "Portland Protesters Burn Bibles, American Flags In The Streets" has a RT video that shows exactly that, and links to several other confirmed Twitter accounts all stating the same thing. How is that a lie?

Not saying it's a lie, but having problems corroborating the original footage. No major news agencies are carrying it, I can't even find an AP or Reuters on it and they generally would report on this kind of thing. For instance, AP has a report of flag burning on Aug 1st, but nothing about bibles.

I'm skeptical because there have been times footage from other events have been reused out of context to push an agenda. Just a few days ago Trump ran a campaign ad that used Ukrainian protest imagery to demonstrate chaos in the US, for instance.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#147

Post by account42 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

antibuddy wrote: post #82

dukoid wrote: post #50

In Germany, part of the problem is that old media lobbying has successfully prevented a reasonable (text based) internet presence of public broadcasting... Some Google-translated coverage: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

Public broadcasting in Germany is no better than private media. In fact most topics are reported the same and even the opinion is the same. But even ignoring this, it is a big problem that publicly funded media is in direct economic competition with privately funded media. This is exacerbated by the official entertainment mission (Unterhaltungsauftrag[1]) and the usage of advertisement. [1]: https://www.die-medienans…

I agree that publich broadcasting in Germany is very much biased. Saying that they are better than tabloids (which other commenters here are) is hardly a high bar.

Besides wasting money on useless entertainment, German public broadcasters also prey on the vulnerable by promoting gambling. They even just prime time just before the evening news for this.

But worse than the content is the funding method. Instead of being funded from taxes the public broadcasters collect a separate non-means-tested fee that is still somehow mandatory. That might have made some sense when you could opt out of that fee by not owning a TV but that option is no longer available.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#148

Post by Falling3 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

imustbeevil wrote: post #138

marcus_holmes wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, who judges whether something is true?

The government, scientists, experts in various fields, people who have proven to tell the truth in the past, etc. You obviously still have your own ability to determine what fits your model of the universe and what doesn't. These are just groups of people more likely to have access to information that you might not. You don't have to trust anyone, but in a system where someone has to judge what is true, these groups…

Governments, scientists, and experts have also been proven to be wrong and to have lied in the past.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#149

Post by shadowgovt » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

Falling3 wrote: post #148

imustbeevil wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government, scientists, experts in various fields, people who have proven to tell the truth in the past, etc. You obviously still have your own ability to determine what fits your model of the universe and what doesn't. These are just groups of people more likely to have access to information that you might not. You don't have to trust anyone, but in a system where someone has to judge what is true, these groups…

Governments, scientists, and experts have also been proven to be wrong and to have lied in the past.

On occasion. What's the average case?

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#150

Post by imustbeevil » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

sandoooo wrote: post #141

imustbeevil wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government, scientists, experts in various fields, people who have proven to tell the truth in the past, etc. You obviously still have your own ability to determine what fits your model of the universe and what doesn't. These are just groups of people more likely to have access to information that you might not. You don't have to trust anyone, but in a system where someone has to judge what is true, these groups…

>The government, scientists, experts in various fields, people who have proven to tell the truth in the past, etc. But how has it been implemented in practice ? If you look at the raw numbers, generally we rely on the lowest bidders amongst Facebook/Google/Twitter's third-world-country subcontractors, as well as the Chinese government.

The existing practice is for the community of these sites to upvote good content and downvote bad content.

Separately, moderators purge controversial content as a check/balance to the voting system. If users feel that the moderation is inconsistent with their content desires, they choose a different site to frequent, as is the case in market systems.