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The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

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Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#51
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no 'chicken and egg' problem. Banks don't use race as criteria for loans, just as auto insurance companies don't use race as criteria for setting rates. I also find perspectives like yours very perplexing. Debt is not charity. It is not charitable to provide debt to someone who cannot afford it. Not for the debtor, nor the lender. I've seen people suffer for years drowning in debt they could not afford. I've…

If I say you have to be 5'9 to get a loan, I'm not discriminating based on gender. It's just a total coincidence that more than 50% of men qualify and less than 10% of women qualify.

Every policy you can create will have differential impact on any group you create. The question is, was the policy created with the intent of racism.

And this is for policies in the abstract. Debt is an incredibly dangerous tool. It is not charity to give someone a loan they cannot afford - I've personally experienced it and I've personally seen it destroy lives. When I see someone get denied for a loan or a mortgage in my circle of friends - in every case, that was a good thing. It would have killed them.

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#52

The title is misleading at best. He wants the banks to invest in his buildings. Which they don't want to because they don't see it as profitable. "You don't want to give me money? RACISM!" - USA 2020

He doesn't want them to invest, he wants a collateralized loan.

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no 'chicken and egg' problem. Banks don't use race as criteria for loans, just as auto insurance companies don't use race as criteria for setting rates. I also find perspectives like yours very perplexing. Debt is not charity. It is not charitable to provide debt to someone who cannot afford it. Not for the debtor, nor the lender. I've seen people suffer for years drowning in debt they could not afford. I've…

> Banks don't use race as criteria for loans, just as auto insurance companies don't use race as criteria for setting rates. That's similar to saying a soap dispenser doesn't use race a criteria, that doesn't change the fact that the thing discriminated PoC. The core problem is biased data in the model - in this case ethnic composition of neighborhoods, in the case of the soap dispenser a lack of testing staff with n…

>that doesn't change the fact that the thing discriminated PoC.

Intent matters. Every policy you can ever create will always have differential impact on any group you create. That's just a fact of reality. If you set a policy that you can only get a mortgage if you have 20% down, that could impact some ethnic group more than another - but that differential impact does NOT mean it is a racist policy.

> in the case of the soap dispenser a lack of testing staff with non-white skin leading to misadjusted sensitivity for the photosensor - not being adequately filtered out.

On a side note ... the criminally under-appreciated show, Better off Ted, did a bit about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXNmiTIupg

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#54
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no 'chicken and egg' problem. Banks don't use race as criteria for loans, just as auto insurance companies don't use race as criteria for setting rates. I also find perspectives like yours very perplexing. Debt is not charity. It is not charitable to provide debt to someone who cannot afford it. Not for the debtor, nor the lender. I've seen people suffer for years drowning in debt they could not afford. I've…

> Banks don't use race as criteria for loans, just as auto insurance companies don't use race as criteria for setting rates. If this article is correct, then this claim is wrong. Banks may not directly use race as a criteria, but the claim is that they use race as a criteria for property value , and then use property value as a criteria for loans: > Five of his properties were in a decent state of repair and some had…

Bank loans are very hard to get for properties like this. Further, there are many extra opportunities for minority owned businesses. The hard truth is that being black is an advantage for loan seekers, not a disadvantage. It simply doesn’t outweigh the risk of failure. My spouse is a minority but with no interest in business. Man, would I like to take advantage of that, but I’m on my own ;)

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#55
I recently led an $80mm mixed use investment in a 10 derelict properties in an offbeat part of Memphis next to a few large government housing projects. Some takeaways reading the article. Banks are not the problem; banks are just doing their jobs by trying to make securable loans. Appraisals aren’t the problem; appraisers are hired and paid to be non-creative and non-biased they assign a value to property. If a group of properties were acquired for next-to-nothing because they’ve been vacant for a decade, it’s tough to assign more than a pittance because there is simply no value comps. The market agrees with the banks and the appraisers, hence not enough people have attempted to concurrently try to develop in Ensley, thus there’s not enough value.

What succeeded for us in Memphis is threefold: 1) proximity to jobs, 2) group buy-in of participation into the vision, and 3) some very wealthy investors who believe in the vision.

I’ve toured Ensley, I looked at buying that mid rise in the back of the article’s picture, and it’s a neat place. It has the fabric of old small towns that used to thrive. However, I don’t think Ensley has any proximity for high quality jobs or prospects for job growth, so that’s probably square one for Ensley. Historically, this has been “the creatives” who need cheap space but also like to buy expensive lattes And generate a micro economy, but in our case in Memphis, a bank wanted to move its headquarters into the neighborhood, alongside several smaller businesses.

Modern day construction is extremely expensive and complicated, to the point that acquisition price in cheap parts of town are a rounding error on the project budget. You need to find a way to guarantee that rents will be sufficient for the long haul, and if you believe banks and appraisals are being short sighted (and they always are..) then you have to provide that guaranty yourself by setting aside a pile of cash or stock to secure the debt.

I could write for days on this topic, more than happy to continue discussion offline or elsewhere

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#56

Reading these threads, it’s always frustrating to see people insist that it can’t be because of race. “There must be a logical, mathematical reason for this!” As a graduate of the Goldman Sachs 10KSB program, one of the most shocking things I found amongst my cohort was how many of the black small business owners were struggling with credit and financing. It didn’t make any sense when we discussed their business. Oft…

Check out the area where he wants the bank to “invest.”

608 19th street Ensley. Look on Google Streetview and Google Earth.

Roofs have collapsed. Half the windows around there are smashed. A few large holes in walls.

What would you value buildings in that area at?

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#57
If you want a happy version of this try -

Apple TV's "Home" S01E02, Chicago

The show is more about artistically showing peoples Home's physically and spiritually for lack of a better word, not figures, but you can see the money it would take in Theaster Gates's project.

If you can't see the money it would take, jump to something generic with $ like Grand Designs.

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#58

How much did he pay to buy those buildings in cash? That seems like key information to allow readers to draw conclusions. What was the market value for them?

Someone down thread posted addresses and this one on Zillow kind of matches the background pictures in the article. It may be for more than one address, since he could own contiguous buildings that got tagged to one transaction. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/610-19th-St-Ensley-AL-352...

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#59
post #56

Reading these threads, it’s always frustrating to see people insist that it can’t be because of race. “There must be a logical, mathematical reason for this!” As a graduate of the Goldman Sachs 10KSB program, one of the most shocking things I found amongst my cohort was how many of the black small business owners were struggling with credit and financing. It didn’t make any sense when we discussed their business. Oft…

Check out the area where he wants the bank to “invest.” 608 19th street Ensley. Look on Google Streetview and Google Earth. Roofs have collapsed. Half the windows around there are smashed. A few large holes in walls. What would you value buildings in that area at?

Set that aside.

Imagine instead that he has found undervalued property in an area with low-labor costs and high potential demand.

It’s exactly the type of investment opportunity banks and financiers should be looking for. It’s literally how our housing system gentrifies.

He didn’t ask the banks to buy the properties. He was seeking an LOC with a personal guarantee and the buildings as collateral.

Re: The frustration of trying to invest in my hometown

#60
post #52

The title is misleading at best. He wants the banks to invest in his buildings. Which they don't want to because they don't see it as profitable. "You don't want to give me money? RACISM!" - USA 2020

He doesn't want them to invest, he wants a collateralized loan.

Unfortunately those cool old buildings are horrible collateral. If he fails the bank simply cannot recover its costs. And he will fail because if the buildings can even be legally rehabbed it will take years and at least a million dollars or so just to get the doors open.
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