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Autodesk criticised by architects

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Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only FreeCAD had a UI as approachable as Fusion 360... You could pay a random professional software company to improve the FreeCAD UI.

> You could pay a random professional software company to improve the FreeCAD UI. Software develoment is of course quite difficult. Good software development is that much harder. Sure, you could pay a company to try to improve the FreeCAD UI - you could pay a company a lot of money to botch the effort, deliver a mediocre outcome, take a zillion years to finish, go far over budget it while still getting a mediocre out…

> It's one of the many reasons people stick with their 75% or 85% good enough present solution.

100% this. That's one thing many people don't realise until they run a business - there are so many things which MUST be done, all the time, just to keep the lights on. When you do get a rare gap in those, you're better off developing and improving your core product than indulging yourself by spending resources on some unrelated nice-to-have.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Autocad - not Autodesk - has many 100's of years of development done to it What does this mean? Wikipedia said the first version of AutoCAD released at 1982, and it was based on a software from 1977.

I think they're saying if you put together the hours spent by all developers who have ever worked on Autocad, it would add up to hundreds of years of work.

Oh I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more than 100 years of work! Especially if you count all the third party developers.

Here's John Walker's history of Autodesk:

https://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/

The Autodesk File: Bits of History, Words of Experience

The Autodesk File chronicles the history of Autodesk, Inc. and its principal product, AutoCAD, through contemporary documents edited and annotated by Autodesk founder and former CEO John Walker. The book traces the company from the first glimmer of an idea in the minds of the founders, through start-up, initial public stock offering, and growth from a loose confederation of moonlighting individuals to a leader in the industry of computer aided design. The book is available in several different editions, suited for on- or off-line reading with various tools. Click on the titles of the section describing the edition you prefer to view it or download to your computer.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#233
post #5

There's easily a multi-billion dollar opportunity for anyone who can unseat Autodesk from the building design industry. Revit is the standard, and while it's improved a lot over the years it's still so ridiculously far from where it could be. I don't think people in software realize how incredibly far behind software tooling is in other industries. Take an idea like "version control for X" or "package manager for X"…

Version management for more structured data is hard. In a previous job we did extensive work on it in the GIS domain, and even having everything backed by a long transaction version controlled data store, resolving conflicts was not always easy. We did a lot of work on ways to automatically resolve conflicts, and it was only worthwhile for large customers who could set up good rules for their workflows (e.g. if you moved a pole in as part of a resurveying workflow then that position should take preference even if other changes happened to the pole).

We can handle this sort of thing in software because we can try compiling something, see it has errors, and fix the obvious syntax problems that have been introduced by a merge or rebase. We have tools that make it easy view and copy data from a previous version, and all of this makes things easier. For more structured data those low level conflicts need to be handled much better so that the user can concentrate on the higher level aspects. If they need to restore sub structures deleted in a merge then they need to be able to see those, so our version control starts to bleed right through the tool chain.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#234
post #99
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the software has an almost identical UI?

It doesn't matter if you can't simply import Revit projects into it and work as usual. That is how Excel got its foothold into the spreadsheet market dominated by Lotus 123 at the time, you need to support the current de facto file standard for that industry/task.

There's also the plugin ecosystem to consider - ranging from small things you might have self-written or exchanged with other users over the years for your workflows or to add missing functionality [1], to complete commercial add-on packages adding big chunks of domain-specific functionality.

[1] Some of which frankly should just be built-in, but either way it wouldn't make creating a replacement any easier.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gold standard around these parts is purported to be Tekla Structures. No affiliation, just a structural steel guru who’s happy to work with the fabrication drawings it spits out. I can spot Autodesk fabrication draws a mile away. Either the steel detailers don’t know how to configure it properly, it, as I suspect, it’s a steaming pile of dumpster fires. I used Autocad for 2D CAD quite a bit, and I don’t see the a…

Yes. Totally agree on TEKLA Structure. Their Concrete detailing also improved substantially in past few years.

Is there anything a non-professional can use for the following four usecases (separate software is ok):

1) Reinforced concrete structure design, with support for non-trivial surfaces (e.g. splines/Bezier curves/surfaces).

2) Non-finely-meshed (in comparison to local volume thickness) truss structures, ideally not just classic steel beams + welded/riveted joints,

3) but also aluminium (considering fatigue from non-stationary loads and optimizing for the lifespan/weight/cost pareto frontier (cost would be just a simplistic metric)).

4) The holy grail, a 3d-printed core (technically a large-pore-size, low-density, open-pore foam) that is then covered by fibers via a robot that passes the spool around the core/preform (filament winding). After hardening the matrix that bonds the fibers together, the 3d-printed core could optionally be removed by melting and/or solvent washing. This kind of structure is potentially extremely stiff due to combining the truss structure with cylindrical beams and a lightweight fiber-reinforced polymer material.

The issue is just the insane non-triviality in designing such a structure, because there are restrictions to holes and fiber angle shifts due to the winding process, where the fiber bundle has to be accurately woven around the mesh in the designed way. This, combined with the directionality of the fibers makes it necessary to consider much more than normal 3d-printable topology optimization[0].

A concrete-ish example would be a multi-monitor + keyboard/mouse support structure to enable a low-fatigue position where the user leans back about 30~60 degrees to allow the neck to be supported and the user's practical FOV (w.r.t. feasibly eye/head movement) is covered by screen area and the arms can rest on supports. The constraint that makes a traditional steel truss undesirable would be to have it mobile (thus lightweight), yet stiff enough to handle ~5 m/s² without impairing usability. A practical case would be to overlay travel with getting work done, by mounting this in the back of a van (including straps/seatbelts as required) and being driven.

A different practical example could be amateur airplane design, e.g. devising an autonomous solar glider, where some stiffness is required to not break the solar cells laminated into the wing surface (thinned wafers are lighter and can conform to the wing's curvature, but will then dislike the wing flexing along the span), but weight is extremely important. Mounting the heavy things (motors, some backup batteries, potential payload) and handling control surface actuation forces won't easily work with a simple fiber-reinforced hollow wing, as a lack of dedicated mounting points (with their own fibers distributing the forces into the outer structural surface) would require a far heavier construction.

It's also difficult to consider aerodynamic forces when computing pre-distortion of the unloaded structure, so that design loads make it take on the desired shape, if there are also ad-hoc mounting brackets glued to the inside surface (which would be necessary if they're not designed into the primary structure).

Sorry for the slightly-OT examples.

[0]: Project video "on using the free version of Fusion360 for shelf brackets printed in PLA on a Prusa i3 MK3": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3smr5CEdksc - Thomas Sanladerer: Making STRONG shelves with Topology Optimization

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#236
post #50

As an structural engineer and former Autodesk user, I completely agree with the letter. I always saw Autodesk as a company where software goes to die a slowly painful death. It started with Autodesk Structural Detaling. They bought the software from a small company, renamed the product... and that was it. It had the same bugs release after release... we as customers tried our best to report the bugs, but nobody liste…

Perhaps i'm being idealistic but if the cycle is that aggressive this screams for architects to start caring about buying FOSS. When you buy software it's an investment - you invest your time in integrating it into your workflow and your employees learning to use it... your investment is tied to the future of that software.

If it's FOSS (funded), no amount of money autodesk throw at it can bury it's source code, buying it would guarantee to some degree a future in the software and thus your investment. Even if autodesk bought the originating company.

But this would take a widespread cultural change in the values of architects combined with the first company willing to gamble on that business model. If a large group of architects are willing to sign a letter like this, perhaps now is the opportune moment to try and spread that value to avoid this problem in the future.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#237
post #236
post #50

As an structural engineer and former Autodesk user, I completely agree with the letter. I always saw Autodesk as a company where software goes to die a slowly painful death. It started with Autodesk Structural Detaling. They bought the software from a small company, renamed the product... and that was it. It had the same bugs release after release... we as customers tried our best to report the bugs, but nobody liste…

Perhaps i'm being idealistic but if the cycle is that aggressive this screams for architects to start caring about buying FOSS. When you buy software it's an investment - you invest your time in integrating it into your workflow and your employees learning to use it... your investment is tied to the future of that software. If it's FOSS (funded), no amount of money autodesk throw at it can bury it's source code, buyi…

> Small company rises to produce quality software, it sells, responds to bugs, listens to users, adds features etc.

I would say:

Small company invests time and money into creating a decent enough product. They listen to customers to build their roadmap and respond to most bugs in a reasonable time. Small company could grow to a medium or large and still hold true to their roots.

Large company buys a mediocre to decent company instead of doing R&D. New company is integrated into large companies suite of products.

Large company fixes only enough to keep the product running or shuts it down completely. Support loses its personal touch and is transferred to the cheapest FTE location. Large company’s corporate politics causes infighting between departments with similar products.

Large company merges with equally large company to reduce competition. Execs cash out and leave ASAP. That’s where I work now.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#238
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Totally agree on TEKLA Structure. Their Concrete detailing also improved substantially in past few years.

Is there anything a non-professional can use for the following four usecases (separate software is ok): 1) Reinforced concrete structure design, with support for non-trivial surfaces (e.g. splines/Bezier curves/surfaces). 2) Non-finely-meshed (in comparison to local volume thickness) truss structures, ideally not just classic steel beams + welded/riveted joints, 3) but also aluminium (considering fatigue from non-sta…

Hi there.

I’m a metal fabricator by trade and work closely with engineers and steel detailers.

You ask for a non-professional solution to four professional grade problems.

So I doubt your gong to get a satisfactory answer.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#239
post #210
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but to defend them somewhat long established products like MS Office suffer from 2 competing interests, people that want innovation and people that want stability For my core users any change at all to MS Office is met with frustration and huge amounts of backlash, even something as simple at changing the icon shading is a problem Many people are robotic when it comes to using these products, going through t…

> Many people are robotic [...] going through the same steps day after day, file after file, and any change to the workflow is cause of extreme frustration, Work in semi-related process automation, and this . So much! Software engineers can't begin to understand what happens when you change a hotkey, when someone has been doing something 100 times a day for 10 years.

Using a hot key 100 times a day for 10 years sounds like exactly the kind of thing software engineers SHOULD understand. I heard a lot of anger from Vim users when Apple messed with the escape key.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#240
post #237
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps i'm being idealistic but if the cycle is that aggressive this screams for architects to start caring about buying FOSS. When you buy software it's an investment - you invest your time in integrating it into your workflow and your employees learning to use it... your investment is tied to the future of that software. If it's FOSS (funded), no amount of money autodesk throw at it can bury it's source code, buyi…

> Small company rises to produce quality software, it sells, responds to bugs, listens to users, adds features etc. I would say: Small company invests time and money into creating a decent enough product. They listen to customers to build their roadmap and respond to most bugs in a reasonable time. Small company could grow to a medium or large and still hold true to their roots. Large company buys a mediocre to decen…

Sorry I edited away your quote since it was implicit in parent.

Your elaboration sounds more accurate i agree, but I think the end result is the same (a dead product with buried source code and wasted investment from it's users).

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