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Autodesk criticised by architects

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Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#101

Post by krautsourced »

thdrdt wrote: post #47
imgabe wrote: post #5

There's easily a multi-billion dollar opportunity for anyone who can unseat Autodesk from the building design industry. Revit is the standard, and while it's improved a lot over the years it's still so ridiculously far from where it could be. I don't think people in software realize how incredibly far behind software tooling is in other industries. Take an idea like "version control for X" or "package manager for X"…

I can't speak for Revit but people are looking to switch to Blender from 3dsMax. The problem is not that Blender can't do what 3ds can but it lacks industry standard tooling compatibility. But still a lot of people in the industry are starting the switch to Blender. So change is coming.

People are always talking about switching to Blender (me included) - but they don't. Because as sad as it is, once you start to actually work with it in serious projects, you noticed all the things that hobbyists who hail Blender as the second coming never care about. I wanted to give Blender another got at replacing Cinema 4D for us (since their new licensing). I got used to the UI, though it's not nearlly as intuitive as C4D, but when I started working with larger scenes, it came out that Undo steps in large scenes could take 20 seconds easily. I mean...wtf? That is probably one of the most essential functions you can have in an editor. Apparently they are working on fixing that. Eventually.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#102

Post by StandardFuture »

heimatau wrote: post #56
imgabe wrote: post #5

There's easily a multi-billion dollar opportunity for anyone who can unseat Autodesk from the building design industry. Revit is the standard, and while it's improved a lot over the years it's still so ridiculously far from where it could be. I don't think people in software realize how incredibly far behind software tooling is in other industries. Take an idea like "version control for X" or "package manager for X"…

As an emerging EE, I fully agree. I honestly believe it could be done with solid quality. Early today I saw this very old video of Elon at SpaceX with their design software [1]. It's amazing to me that this video was six years ago. Revit is the prized gem. Whomever creates it, focus on Revit and focus on the pain-points. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNqs_S-zEBY

As someone who was working in the physical engineering world when that video came out ... I am not convinced that design software specifically actually empowers engineers to be any faster at designing new and novel engineering (over pen and paper -- with isometric style drawings, etc.). Both software and paper design require a huge amount of training upfront and a huge amount of effort per project.

Anything that is standardized (engineering-wise -- and many things are) does not actually need a designer working with design software. It needs a generation algorithm (a script) with input parameters.

The biggest problem of why this area does not get more attention? We just don't build shit anymore. So, there is less money and opportunity than ever in it. Like really. We don't build shit. We need to fix corruption in politics long before we fix the lack of a proper marketplace to create incentive for maximizing the engineering potential of our society.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#103

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

poseva wrote: post #50

As an structural engineer and former Autodesk user, I completely agree with the letter. I always saw Autodesk as a company where software goes to die a slowly painful death. It started with Autodesk Structural Detaling. They bought the software from a small company, renamed the product... and that was it. It had the same bugs release after release... we as customers tried our best to report the bugs, but nobody liste…

To be fair this is not new. Autodesk has had this MO for decades.

I remember in 1999, I was interning for a company that was getting into CAD, choice was to get 3D Solidworks that no one had heard of, or get the software that literally everybody used - 2D AutoCAD.

That company still uses Solidworks today and has never touched a single Autodesk product. I can guarantee the opposite would not be true if the other decision was made.

We knew in 1999 that Autodesk was never going to innovate, or allow us to.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#104

Post by imtringued »

Animats wrote: post #35
fsloth wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite hard to develop software by just throwing money at it. And even harder when the domain is a bit niche and a bit esoteric so your hiring will be even harder. The optimal person would be a game dev with a penchant for math and a MSc in an engineering field. And you would like to have a team of these, please. Completely doable, but very much non-standard so if you have no inhouse experience to start with you'…

Autodesk has gone "software as a service". For a long time they sold boxed software. But that market is over. So they went to "software as a service". That can get very expensive for users. That's apparently the real customer complaint. I don't really know about the architectural tools. I've used Inventor, Fusion 360, and Maya. Autodesk became a leader in 3D animation software because the animation software companies…

As a FreeCAD user I don't understand why FreeCAD absolutely despises chamfers and fillets. The dedicated chamfer and fillet tools are just bad. I can do the fillet by hand without any problems. Just create a sketch and revolve the cut or sweep the cut along the chamfered edge. Works perfectly fine but it takes much longer than it should.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#105

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

klft wrote: post #21
imgabe wrote: post #5

There's easily a multi-billion dollar opportunity for anyone who can unseat Autodesk from the building design industry. Revit is the standard, and while it's improved a lot over the years it's still so ridiculously far from where it could be. I don't think people in software realize how incredibly far behind software tooling is in other industries. Take an idea like "version control for X" or "package manager for X"…

> Take an idea like "version control for X" or "package manager for X" Product lifecycle management (PLM) software provide such features.

For what it’s worth, first hand experience here, Autodesk’s PLM is IMO quite awful.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#106

Post by roel_v »

ur-whale wrote: post #85
dogma1138 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently in the Eurozone you need to submit autodesk formats to get your building permissions and certifications approved. Architecture is a protected profession in the EU and you’ll be surprised just how many architects from construction firms do nothing more than to trace plans they got from interior design and other architecture firms in a PDF format in autocad. There are a few gems on the autodesk forums where p…

Having recently interacted with Architects that are strictly stuck on using Autocad (that's all they know, from University and through their whole career), I can testify to the accuracy of that statement. Also, trying to communicate with them with anything outside of a PDF is damn near impossible. The very idea of them sending a 3D file to their customers scares them shitless.

I put in my contracts with architects that I want the source files to any drawings they make. Not a single one has ever refused to work with me for that reason. Surveyors, too.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#107

Post by fireattack »

jacquesm wrote: post #27

Interesting that the criticism is levelled at Autodesk 'the company' rather than that it admits what people don't want to say: Autocad is pretty good, and it will take a large and well funded entity to take it on. Using anti-trust tools may be the right tool here but the industry as a whole was quick to adapt to Autocad long before it became a dominant player. Autocad - not Autodesk - has many 100's of years of devel…

>Autocad - not Autodesk - has many 100's of years of development done to it

What does this mean? Wikipedia said the first version of AutoCAD released at 1982, and it was based on a software from 1977.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#108

Post by zingplex »

SenHeng wrote: post #92
heimatau wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an emerging EE, I fully agree. I honestly believe it could be done with solid quality. Early today I saw this very old video of Elon at SpaceX with their design software [1]. It's amazing to me that this video was six years ago. Revit is the prized gem. Whomever creates it, focus on Revit and focus on the pain-points. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNqs_S-zEBY

I saw that Leap Motion [0] video almost 10 years ago and have wanted to have one ever since. Sadly, it seems they didn't sell enough to sustain theirselves and have mostly concluded their incredible journey [1]. I had a few friends that worked in 3D modelling them and they really wanted to try it out for sculpting. I guess actually swinging your hands around in air like Tom Cruise in Minority Report was too tiring fo…

The Leap Motion is still on sale. https://www.ultraleap.com/product/leap-motion-controller/

I had one when they first came out and while the tracking accuracy was quite good, it wasn't good enough for doing any precision work. Every so often the tracking would skip and glitch.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#109

Post by klft »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #105
klft wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take an idea like "version control for X" or "package manager for X" Product lifecycle management (PLM) software provide such features.

For what it’s worth, first hand experience here, Autodesk’s PLM is IMO quite awful.

I do not want to question that, I was rather questioning the statement that "you'd be hailed as a revolutionary genius." if you introduce version control or package management.

PLM software exists since a long time but I agree that it might not serve user needs optimally. But this is more a market failure than a technical problem.

Re: Autodesk criticised by architects

#110

Post by keith___talent »

krautsourced wrote: post #101
thdrdt wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for Revit but people are looking to switch to Blender from 3dsMax. The problem is not that Blender can't do what 3ds can but it lacks industry standard tooling compatibility. But still a lot of people in the industry are starting the switch to Blender. So change is coming.

People are always talking about switching to Blender (me included) - but they don't. Because as sad as it is, once you start to actually work with it in serious projects, you noticed all the things that hobbyists who hail Blender as the second coming never care about. I wanted to give Blender another got at replacing Cinema 4D for us (since their new licensing). I got used to the UI, though it's not nearlly as intuit…

C4D is beautiful software - Blender is making strides, maybe 3 years it would take, but Blender is in feature acquisition mode, not improving the codebase/current functionality.
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