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Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

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Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#21

Post by nikkwong »

Vaslo wrote: post #15

The brain gut connection is incredible. For years I suffered with terrible IBS where I would almost always get nauseous after eating and would often need to immediately go to the bathroom. I also had a very difficult time gaining weight. I tried all kinds of drugs - prescriptions to treat nausea, malabsorption, even gastroparesis (slow emptying of the stomach). Nothing worked and a few of the prescriptions were nerve…

Would you mind disclosing who the doctor was? I have been dealing with this for years and it's been wreaking havoc on my personal and professional lives. Doctors in my area are not familiar with my condition and don't have a solution. I'm especially tired of the malabsorption, dietary restrictions, sleeping issues, inability to gain weight, edema.. a whole laundry list. Would love to hear your doctor's opinion.

I am not surprised that the brain-gut circuit affects the sympathetic nervous system. I find that when my symptoms start getting very bad my heart rate variability drops basically to 0 (with loud, thunderous heartbeats). When things are good I don't notice my heartbeat whatsoever. Symptoms improve basically when I stop eating.. which is not a treatment plan.

I find it strange that my gastroenterologist does not even contemplate cases involving gut dysbiosis. I ask all of the relevant questions and the answer is "dysbiosis is not something we treat". And he's a gastroenterologist for christ's sake. He literally said to me "Get used to it. Some days you will have good days and some days you will have bad days". Modern medicine for you.

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#22

Post by epmaybe »

Vaslo wrote: post #15

The brain gut connection is incredible. For years I suffered with terrible IBS where I would almost always get nauseous after eating and would often need to immediately go to the bathroom. I also had a very difficult time gaining weight. I tried all kinds of drugs - prescriptions to treat nausea, malabsorption, even gastroparesis (slow emptying of the stomach). Nothing worked and a few of the prescriptions were nerve…

I don't know much about brain-gut connection, but just a note: Tardive dyskinesia has some treatment options now (valbenazine is one of the options I'm familiar with). They're not a total "cure" but I've seen the benefits in a few patients when I was in school.

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#23

Post by pfundstein »

chrisco255 wrote: post #13
pfundstein wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key to a good diet is balance. Too much red meat has equally severe health implications, leading to a higher risk for heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and premature death.[1][2] [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/whats-the-bee... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26780279/

Mankind evolved to eat red meat. We developed fire for it. We invented spears and bow hunting for it. It's one of the healthiest foods you can consume, has been part of the human diet for over 2 million years... and besides the noted protein, it contains B12, Zinc, Selenium, Iron, Niacin, B6, Phosphorous and many other valuable nutrients. You can live exclusively off a diet of just red meat and live a long, healthy l…

Mankind rarely lived beyond 25 until very recently so the long-term effects of high red meat consumption have never been part of the evolutionary equation. There have been numerous long term studies that have found strong links between diseases, esp. heart disease, diabetes, cancer. These diseases take years to manifest normally thus wouldn't have existed then.

Edit: s/didn't live/rarely lived/

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#24

Post by wittyreference »

55555 wrote: post #18
droffel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting your information? Tricyclic antidepressants are generally SNRIs, which definitely do effect the brain. It is true that the gut also has serotonin receptors, so there can definitely be side effects there, but to say that it's the only place where TCAs have an effect contradicts decades of medical research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricyclic_antidepressant

The way I read the parent comment: > Tricyclics work directly on gut neurology. [The effect you are noticing] [has] nothing to do with the brain [as it is a direct result of the direct effect the tricyclic has on the gut].

You read it correctly; thank you for stating it more clearly than I did.

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#25

Post by karmakaze »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

18 months off sugar and I still have to consciously view dessert items as akin to poison to quell the desire to eat all of them.

Interesting. Every time I go low-carb, I loose my taste for sweets in about 3 weeks. Anything sugary starts to taste bad until I re-acclimate to it.

These are interesting comments. My normal diet of mostly starchy carbs leaves me without any cravings for sugary things even if they're just lying around near me. The moment I start eating sugary things I get hungry so fast, not just for sugary things but anything and it's hard to concentrate.

I also have a weird condition where I'll forget to eat to the point of low blood sugar, sometimes drastically so--speech or vision impairment. I've learned to recognize physical changes associated with very low blood sugar (e.g. nausea, feeling hot/cold/sweaty at normal room temp, extreme indecision) to remember to eat. Haven't found a way to stay in a normal middle ground.

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#27

Post by phonypc »

pfundstein wrote: post #23
chrisco255 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mankind evolved to eat red meat. We developed fire for it. We invented spears and bow hunting for it. It's one of the healthiest foods you can consume, has been part of the human diet for over 2 million years... and besides the noted protein, it contains B12, Zinc, Selenium, Iron, Niacin, B6, Phosphorous and many other valuable nutrients. You can live exclusively off a diet of just red meat and live a long, healthy l…

Mankind rarely lived beyond 25 until very recently so the long-term effects of high red meat consumption have never been part of the evolutionary equation. There have been numerous long term studies that have found strong links between diseases, esp. heart disease, diabetes, cancer. These diseases take years to manifest normally thus wouldn't have existed then. Edit: s/didn't live/rarely lived/

Life expectancy being 25 doesn't mean nobody lives past 25. Estimates that low for early humans is skewed by huge infant mortality rates. IIRC living into the 40s or 50s was typical for an early human that survived to adulthood. 60s or 70s not uncommon.

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#28

Post by pfundstein »

phonypc wrote: post #27
pfundstein wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mankind rarely lived beyond 25 until very recently so the long-term effects of high red meat consumption have never been part of the evolutionary equation. There have been numerous long term studies that have found strong links between diseases, esp. heart disease, diabetes, cancer. These diseases take years to manifest normally thus wouldn't have existed then. Edit: s/didn't live/rarely lived/

Life expectancy being 25 doesn't mean nobody lives past 25. Estimates that low for early humans is skewed by huge infant mortality rates. IIRC living into the 40s or 50s was typical for an early human that survived to adulthood. 60s or 70s not uncommon.

>IIRC living into the 40s or 50s was typical for an early human that survived to adulthood.

>60s or 70s not uncommon.

I would love to see the evidence you're referencing.

> Life expectancy being 25 doesn't mean nobody lives past 25.

You're absolutely right.

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#29

Post by chrisco255 »

pfundstein wrote: post #28
phonypc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy being 25 doesn't mean nobody lives past 25. Estimates that low for early humans is skewed by huge infant mortality rates. IIRC living into the 40s or 50s was typical for an early human that survived to adulthood. 60s or 70s not uncommon.

>IIRC living into the 40s or 50s was typical for an early human that survived to adulthood. >60s or 70s not uncommon. I would love to see the evidence you're referencing. > Life expectancy being 25 doesn't mean nobody lives past 25. You're absolutely right.

We can't actually tell the age of death of human fossils past the time that wisdom teeth grow in. There's no way of telling whether a fossilized skeleton was 30 at death or 50 at death. Even then, we don't necessarily have a representative sample.

The Sami, as I mentioned, have been studied. They are a tribe of reindeer herders in northern Scandinavia. They eat a diet consisting of almost exclusively reindeer meat. They have lower cancer incidence than Finns (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.10486).

Hong Kong consumes more red meat per person than the U.S. and they have the highest life expectancy in the world: https://beef2live.com/story-world-beef-consumption-per-capit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe...

Re: Brain-Gut Circuit Lets Microbiota Directly Affect the Sympathetic Nervous System

#30

Post by hinkley »

chrisco255 wrote: post #13
pfundstein wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key to a good diet is balance. Too much red meat has equally severe health implications, leading to a higher risk for heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and premature death.[1][2] [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/whats-the-bee... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26780279/

Mankind evolved to eat red meat. We developed fire for it. We invented spears and bow hunting for it. It's one of the healthiest foods you can consume, has been part of the human diet for over 2 million years... and besides the noted protein, it contains B12, Zinc, Selenium, Iron, Niacin, B6, Phosphorous and many other valuable nutrients. You can live exclusively off a diet of just red meat and live a long, healthy l…

We are omnivores. Junk food hacks an instinct to eat dense vegetarian calorie sources. But we will eat anything we can get our hands on, and that seems to start even earlier in the family tree than the hominids.

Meat is a target of opportunity, one that helped us build much larger brains. But it’s not the only thing we’re tuned to eat.

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