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Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

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Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#111

Post by rfoo »

innagadadavida wrote: post #109
em500 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Security" also happens to be the favorite purported justification of most authoritarian measures in evil regimes. Just look at China: ubiquitous surveillance, censorship, concentration camps, suppression of dissent are all justified internally as "security measures".

There is an important difference in this instance - the US is applying these to a foreign company, not on its own citizens like China.

I'm pretty sure when China banned Google & Facebook, it cited the reason as "not obeying local law" and "posing a national security threat".

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#112

Post by shalmanese »

ardit33 wrote: post #20

If Tiktok was European/Japanese/Korean/Canadian this would not happen, as those countries are free democracies and work with a similar/common rule of law 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules, and it has been proven to be a malicious player 2. They don’t allow western companies to operate freely in their country, why should we let them to? 3. The US and to a lesser degree Europe, are in a de-facto new Cold War, a…

Except Trump is blocking the move that would alleviate all of those concerns because it's politically inconvenient to admit that the owners of Tiktok don't really care about harvesting sensitive personal data to appease their political overlords in Beijing, they mainly care about the same thing every other tech CEO cares about which is harvesting sensitive personal data to build a fantastically profitable advertising platform.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#113

Post by Slartie »

rfoo wrote: post #111
innagadadavida wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an important difference in this instance - the US is applying these to a foreign company, not on its own citizens like China.

I'm pretty sure when China banned Google & Facebook, it cited the reason as "not obeying local law" and "posing a national security threat".

It was less national security and more not obeying local law, particularly the law mandating censorship of certain stuff.

I don't like the Chinese approach to managing the public opinion by censoring valid information and opinions at all. But the opaque and uncontrollable pockets of power created by the US approach of misusing "national security" as an excuse for practically any action, most of them being more politically motivated than anything else, is equally disturbing and problematic. Both of these ways of governing lend themselves equally well to dictatorships, which I consider problematic, especially in modern democracies, which the US certainly claims to be (the Chinese government at least doesn't claim to be a democracy in the first place).

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#115

Post by tibbydudeza »

CPAhem wrote: post #88
ardit33 wrote: post #20

If Tiktok was European/Japanese/Korean/Canadian this would not happen, as those countries are free democracies and work with a similar/common rule of law 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules, and it has been proven to be a malicious player 2. They don’t allow western companies to operate freely in their country, why should we let them to? 3. The US and to a lesser degree Europe, are in a de-facto new Cold War, a…

Sadly this splitting of tech into China and the West is a huge trend, one which we are not going to stop. In the future tech will bifurcate into two camps and we'll have a new cold war.

I am tired of the FAANG dominance of tech ... time for new products and companies.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#116

Post by JeremyNT »

kanox wrote: post #41
scarface74 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, This is what HN posters want. As evidence by the numerous downvotes I get about not wanting the government involvement in tech. Even after the dog and pony show with the CEO’s last week where one representative grilled Zuckerberg about Twitter’s treatment of Don Jr.

The worst political development over the last decade is the very wide embracing of corporate censorship. It is now widely accepted that media platforms have an explicit duty to control public opinion. In this context any large foreign media outlet becomes a threat.

Social media platforms are tools of information warfare and propaganda. This is what advertising is to begin with, and outside of that obvious function most of these platforms are further optimized to drive engagement by presenting misinformation.

The idea of politicians discriminating against the ones they don't like is repugnant, but these platforms already are already used to control public opinion in ways that are against the public interest, and it's certainly reasonable to suspect that a platform such as TikTok (which is controlled by a competing empire) might be used to that empire's advantage.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#117

Post by jackson1442 »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #44
puranjay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free Market for me, not for thee

Is China a free market for non-Chinese companies?

Does it matter? This is a discussion about the law of the United States, and last I checked we do not follow Chinese law.

I'll reiterate my point from above-- if the US government wants to ban Chinese services, that's fine. I support that decision. What I do not support is doing this via executive order as that is not how laws are passed.

If the US were to ban Chinese companies, it should be a law passed through Congress, signed by the president, and approved by the USSC. It should have clear parameters as to what exactly is being banned. It should, again, not be an executive order banning TikTok explicitly as there is nothing inherently bad about being an app called TikTok.

tldr if the US government wants to play the "fight fire with fire" card, they should be fighting the whole fire, not just the one that upset the president.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#118

Post by indymike »

JeremyNT wrote: post #116
kanox wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst political development over the last decade is the very wide embracing of corporate censorship. It is now widely accepted that media platforms have an explicit duty to control public opinion. In this context any large foreign media outlet becomes a threat.

Social media platforms are tools of information warfare and propaganda. This is what advertising is to begin with, and outside of that obvious function most of these platforms are further optimized to drive engagement by presenting misinformation. The idea of politicians discriminating against the ones they don't like is repugnant, but these platforms already are already used to control public opinion in ways that ar…

All of which is either press or speech.
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