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Local-first software (2019)

inkandswitch.com

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Re: Local-first software (2019)

#91
Im doing a "browser-based something" that can mostly be reasoned about as a web-over-rpc-services where the primary pitch to start it, was exactly based on the thinking generously expressed by this article (albeit i had to start it much earlier).

The first thing is to expect the app devs to define a api in RPC so that what they app serve it transparent to the whole platform.

That way, users and other apps can reuse that api and integrate tools and other services without worrying about if the node is online or not.

Given they are RPC (over TCP or IPC), they can be used as a peer node in a distributed computing flock or in the app service process the application can serve the RPC requests not locally if it wants or needs, but going over the network.

But even in the case it goes straight to the "cloud" for resources, in the node it will always go through the RPC-api first. (How the application handle the RPC request is defined by the app developers).

There are a lot of others important details actually, for instance the UI sdk, window management, its already there, the storage layer (files and key-value db) are distributed over p2p(torrent) and everything is accessible/bootstrapped through a DHT address accessible anywhere.

But imagine if you had this architecture before, and Twitter, Facebook or Google search had to install a api-based application, where they need to ask you for permission to index content, or store locally your list of friends.. where later other apps could extract that information from your machine.. For instance you could change your search to DDG or export your Facebook list of friends and post to some other social network(this is actually the primary reason almost no one could compete with a popular social network).

In the end, things that should be yours are yours and third-party apps will have to be installed and granted permission by you to manage that digital property.

But overall i'm very glad to see that this is starting to become some sort of a trend, that people are finally waking up, because despite of all technological implications of it, it also have a lot of political and social benefits to this approach.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#92
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my last job, we hosted our own git repo with gitolite. That doesn't give you a ticketing system of course, but it was fairly easy to administer. And it sat on a miscelanous jobs server we already needed and didn't use up too much resources. Remote access followed production norms, so no extra work there (other than a lot more people need access to git than other production servers). Maybe a few hours one time to l…

Now repeat that for your mail server, your expense tracking system, your HR system, your project manager system, various collaboration software.... And what happens when that one server goes down or becomes overloaded?

Some of these are better to outsource than others. Mail probably needs more active upkeep, but you could more easily block links to reduce spear phishing if you were running it yourself. Expense tracking needs detailed knowledge of accounting to ensure only proper expenses are approved (possibly by an outside consultant) I don't even know if there are low cost software options here. HR systems (includes payroll?) is also specialized and high effort and not core competency.

I've got opinions on collaboration software (why not put text files in git), but ignoring that, I don't really want to run a wiki, so sure, maybe your email provider offers something anyway.

> And what happens when that one server goes down or becomes overloaded?

You fix it? Same like when production breaks; hopefully you have people who can fix production, hopefully you monitor your important tools. What happens when it gets overloaded and its outsourced? You hope your provider fixes it, and you call and yell at them.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#93
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now repeat that for your mail server, your expense tracking system, your HR system, your project manager system, various collaboration software.... And what happens when that one server goes down or becomes overloaded?

Some of these are better to outsource than others. Mail probably needs more active upkeep, but you could more easily block links to reduce spear phishing if you were running it yourself. Expense tracking needs detailed knowledge of accounting to ensure only proper expenses are approved (possibly by an outside consultant) I don't even know if there are low cost software options here. HR systems (includes payroll?) is…

> You fix it? Same like when production breaks; hopefully you have people who can fix production, hopefully you monitor your important tools. What happens when it gets overloaded and its outsourced? You hope your provider fixes it, and you call and yell at them.

Well, in my case. I just clicked on “minimum” and increase it by 1 in my autoscaling group or I scale vertically and change the server from 2xlarge to 4xlarge.

Can you get another server shipped to your colo in 5 minutes, brought online and roll over and go back to sleep? Like I did at my last job. Most of the time by the time the notification alarm woke me up, scaling has already taken place.

But, depending on the service, part of “monitoring” is bringing up another server automatically when CPU usage spikes.

But I think my current employer knows just a little about managing servers/services at scale. As far as I know, my current employer manages more servers than anyone else on the planet and has more experts on staff than anyone.

Even that being said, we outsource a lot of the services that aren’t in our core competencies to other companies.

I couldn’t say that about my previous employer who had 50 people in all.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#94
post #56

I think there's probably a market for a personal cloud, which probably sounds dumber than personal computer did in the 80s. What I mean by that is a computer somewhere in the garage, like a furnace, with enough compute and storage to drive all the devices and appliances in a house. In this model, devices do not have CPUs or memory, only input/output and a network chip. The way this would work is for the computer in t…

I would love a hardware/software solution that makes it easily to backup my data (ideally with integrations to Google Takeout, Facebook, etc.). Perhaps it exists already? Edit: of course local-first does not mean merely "backup", but instead the (redundant) hardware serves as a primary data store. I would welcome that as well!

Synology NAS does this very well.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#95
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way people federated email forever? Local servers that contact upstream servers?

My question is not "how does federation work?" It is "in what situation is federation useful for video conferencing in a way that a single open source server is not?"

Restatement of the other responder:

You put a repeater on (at least) one side of every bottleneck to remove redundant traffic.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#96
How about a more generalised collaboration system, where you just edit your files lot Cally as standard, but can kind of dial in using o collaboration - a bit like a screen share on a call. So suddenly the people you've dialled can leave comments on your work etc, but when you cut the connection, they can't any more?

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#97
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Re: Local-first software (2019)

#98
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the end result should be that we dont try?

More regulation actually increases the barrier of entry to make it even harder for new companies. Well financed established companies are well able to comply. There is a reason that FB always begs for regulation.

If the barrier to entry is "don't be a dick and sell data to whomever you like without telling your customers", it's kinda a good barrier, or not?

Regulation isnt a black and white/good or bad thing. It can be either.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#99
post #43

This is the 3rd time in a week a "Local-First software" overview has been submitted and the 2nd time it's made the front page here. I'm pretty surprised about that because I'm about to release a local-first, offline-first, option for an app I make. This article also quickly moves past "local-first" software to conflict resolution which, in my opinion, is a distinctly different issue. It's certainly not reason enough…

How does the user switch from using database in the cloud to using one on their desktop?

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#100
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More regulation actually increases the barrier of entry to make it even harder for new companies. Well financed established companies are well able to comply. There is a reason that FB always begs for regulation.

If the barrier to entry is "don't be a dick and sell data to whomever you like without telling your customers", it's kinda a good barrier, or not? Regulation isnt a black and white/good or bad thing. It can be either.

Think about a regulation being passed that says if you allow user generated content, you must have a system in place to prevent copyright infringement. Would a startup be able to design such a system? It would give FB and Google an advantage.
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