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Success, and Farming vs. Mining

blog.wilshipley.com

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Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#31

Post by donnyg107 »

DanI-S wrote: post #10

On a slight tangent, modern farming techniques are more akin to the mining he describes than they are to farming. It's not just the software industry that is affected by this short-term thinking; it's the majority of human endeavour. It's hard to tell whether the stock market is a cause or a symptom - our primary mode of 'investing in the future' is so prone to being short-circuited for short term gain.

At first glance, it seems this guy is basically just describing the markets and calling traits problems. Obviously you need to invest in a company before its popular for it to be a good investment. A company with a fully stable profit won't even take your investment most of the time. "Mining" is just the process of investment! However, I do not think this is the point. The important point is not that "mining" and the markets are evil, but that founders shouldn't be investors. If you start a company, you should be interested in BUILDING A COMPANY, not selling a big company and making a boatload. Obviously, people want to make money, but for some reason the misconception that the cash in hand for a crappy company is worth more than the cash in stock for a great and growing company. Great companies start with people who want the company to succeed and investors who want to make a buck, not the other way around.

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#32

Post by donnyg107 »

DanI-S wrote: post #10

On a slight tangent, modern farming techniques are more akin to the mining he describes than they are to farming. It's not just the software industry that is affected by this short-term thinking; it's the majority of human endeavour. It's hard to tell whether the stock market is a cause or a symptom - our primary mode of 'investing in the future' is so prone to being short-circuited for short term gain.

At first glance, it seems this guy is basically just describing the markets and calling traits problems. Obviously you need to invest in a company before its popular for it to be a good investment. A company with a fully stable profit won't even take your investment most of the time. "Mining" is just the process of investment! However, I do not think this is the point. The important point is not that "mining" and the markets are evil, but that founders shouldn't be investors. If you start a company, you should be interested in BUILDING A COMPANY, not selling a big company and making a boatload. Obviously, people want to make money, but for some reason the misconception that the cash in hand for a crappy company is worth more than the cash in stock for a great and growing company. Great companies start with people who want the company to succeed and investors who want to make a buck, not the other way around.

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#33

Post by msort »

The stories of Google, Facebook, and Twitter show that VC has values. We want more investments to start-ups, rather than the opposite. Let the market decide itself: the money will flow where the value is, eventually. I think success is hard either way: faming or mining, it is better than not trying.

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#34

Post by donnyg107 »

nostrademons wrote: post #12

You have to be very careful when following advice like this, because a lot of the time things that look stupid and shortsighted simply reflect a deeper understanding of what the actual product is. For example, for many VC-funded and fast-growing startups, the product is not the website, software, whatever that they're showing users. It's the knowledge that users have a particular need, and that need can be satisfied…

I don't think this writer has much opposition to the sale of a company itself, but the attitude with which many founders are creating their companies. I think he's using recent results to establish that usual pretense for many startup is not very pure or quality oriented. I think he'd acknowledge that selling a startup is often the right choice, but creating a startup with no care for quality or long term product stability is not.

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#35

Post by jarin »

> What’s upsetting is the number of people who have come to me with the idea of becoming miners: “I know nothing about software, but I can see there’s gold in them thar’ hills, and so I want to start up a company and make my million dollars! I’ve got an idea and everything, just tell me what magic incantation you did to get rich and I’ll be on my way.”

Reminds me of an interview I heard with Steve Martin (promoting his book Born Standing Up), where he talks about the advice he gives to aspiring comedians. When they ask him what the trick is to getting famous, he just says "hard work". He said they usually seem disappointed, because that's not what they wanted to hear.

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#36

Post by ytNumbers »

DanI-S wrote: post #10

On a slight tangent, modern farming techniques are more akin to the mining he describes than they are to farming. It's not just the software industry that is affected by this short-term thinking; it's the majority of human endeavour. It's hard to tell whether the stock market is a cause or a symptom - our primary mode of 'investing in the future' is so prone to being short-circuited for short term gain.

Large scale conventional farming is akin to mining. I guess it's always the little guy who gets enlightened first. There are a lot of small farms practicing sustainable agriculture. It feels like it's taking way too long to persuade conventional farmers to clean up their act (and to persuade consumers to make better food choices), but the number of acres involved in sustainable farming has grown quite a bit in the past decade. Human nature being what it is, I don't know if we'll ever get the majority of people to behave responsibly over the long-term. But, the current trends do look promising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_agriculture

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#37

Post by pacohn »

donnyg107 wrote: post #34
nostrademons wrote: post #12

You have to be very careful when following advice like this, because a lot of the time things that look stupid and shortsighted simply reflect a deeper understanding of what the actual product is. For example, for many VC-funded and fast-growing startups, the product is not the website, software, whatever that they're showing users. It's the knowledge that users have a particular need, and that need can be satisfied…

I don't think this writer has much opposition to the sale of a company itself, but the attitude with which many founders are creating their companies. I think he's using recent results to establish that usual pretense for many startup is not very pure or quality oriented. I think he'd acknowledge that selling a startup is often the right choice, but creating a startup with no care for quality or long term product sta…

I agree. I think the article speaks to the founder and his/her vision and intent rather than the product.

Sometimes the planted flag is much different from the fully implemented product.

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#38

Post by stray »

nkurz wrote: post #27
stray wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much [cw]ould you pay for a mac mini? I have one sitting across the room from me that I hardly use. It's an early intel model with 1gb. I want to buy a new one to run OpenCyc (which requires 4gb) on but I can't bring myself to just scrap the old one.

Just give it to him already. Ask him to pay shipping, and bask in the good deed while you wait for your new machine. Rather than asking him to part with a small amount of money he probably can't really afford and you likely don't really need, tell him to pass the favor on to someone else someday.

Perhaps he's too proud to accept charity from a stranger.

Offering to sell it to him for whatever he can comfortably pay (no matter how small) is both generous and respectful.

If he cannot afford even a penny, I'm happy to pay shipping as well...

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#39

Post by sudonim »

d2 wrote: post #17

Wil's metaphor is brilliant and the values he describes are exactly what our industry needs to hear. I have been jumping from product to product for years, with the expectation of dump trucks arriving one day out front and unloading tons of money. I'm doing it again with my current company. We have a solid niche, strong traction and are leaders in our space, but rather than making what is good, really excellent, I'm…

I once read a quote that goes something like: "If a book causes a reader to reevaluate their own life, it says more about the reader than the book".

That has happened to me a couple of times. Most recently was probably reading "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. I had pigeonholed that book as something that banking types read and presupposed the book advocated "Mining" (to use Wil's analogy). However, the protagonists in the book are hard-working (in spite of family wealth) and innovative. In the book, the protagonists opt out of what the world at large deems as the "right" way to do things.

Ignore the mythology that glorifies "mining". It's nonsense. Find different people to look up to.

This interview with David Heinemeier Hansson reinforces Wil's point of view: http://mixergy.com/david-heinemeier-hansson-37signals-interv...

Re: Success, and Farming vs. Mining

#40

Post by avolcano »

stray wrote: post #38
nkurz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just give it to him already. Ask him to pay shipping, and bask in the good deed while you wait for your new machine. Rather than asking him to part with a small amount of money he probably can't really afford and you likely don't really need, tell him to pass the favor on to someone else someday.

Perhaps he's too proud to accept charity from a stranger. Offering to sell it to him for whatever he can comfortably pay (no matter how small) is both generous and respectful. If he cannot afford even a penny, I'm happy to pay shipping as well...

Uh... wow.

This actually came at a crappy time for me, since right now I don't have a lot of disposable income - I'm 17 and jobless (no available transportation...). I would try to pay at least $100 or something, but right now I'm almost flat broke.

If you're okay with going total charity, you can email me at tommy04@gmail.com so we can work it out, but if you're not, I understand.

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