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Local-first software (2019)

inkandswitch.com

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Re: Local-first software (2019)

#41

> ... cloud apps depend on the service continuing to be available: if the service is unavailable, you cannot use the software, and you can no longer access your data created with that software. This means you are betting that the creators of the software will continue supporting it for a long time — at least as long as you care about the data. Although there does not seem to be a great danger of Google shutting down…

Many far smarter people have said this before, far more eloquently than I can, but in short: Cloud Computing (and SASS even more so) is little more than just another attempt to recreate access/info monopolies, essentially the same profit proposition as existed with closed source software, while pretending to be one of the cool kids and use politically more acceptable (but in this context rather meaningless) terms lik…

>Cloud Computing (and SASS even more so) is little more than just another attempt to recreate access/info monopolies, [...] , everyone will blame anything and everything but their own willful ignorance,

For some reason, "cloud computing" has become a bogeyman and therefore corporations paying for it are clueless "sheeple".

To help prevent the phrase "cloud computing" from distorting our thinking, we have to remember that companies have been paying others for off-premise computing without calling it "cloud" or "SaaS" for decades before Amazon AWS, Salesforce, etc existed.

Examples...

In the 1960s, IBM's SABRE[1] airline reservations system was the "cloud" for companies like American Airlines, Delta, etc.

In the 1980s, many companies used to process payroll in-house accounting software and print paychecks on self-owned dot-matrix printers. But most companies eventually outsourced all that to specialized companies such as ADP[2].

Companies tried to manage employees' retirement benefits on in-house software but most outsource that to companies like Fidelity[3]. Likewise, even companies that self-fund their own healthcare benefits will still outsource the administration to a company like Cigna[4]. Don't install a bunch of "healthcare management software" on your own on-premise servers. Just use the "cloud/SaaS" computers that Cigna has.

Some companies (really old ones) used to print their own stock ownership certificates and mail them out to grandma. Now, virtually every company outsources that to another company. Most companies that have Employee Stock Purchase Plans outsource the administration of it to a company like Computershare[5].

The major difference with "cloud" terminology taking hold is that services like AWS is offering generic compute (EC2) and non-vertical industry solutions. Otherwise, the so-called "cloud" has been going on for decades. Amazon AWS made "cloud" really convenient by allocating off-premise resources via a web interface (dashboard or REST api) instead of calling a salesperson from IBM/ADP/Fidelity/Cigna/etc.

That doesn't mean it's always correct to buy into everything the cloud offers. Pick and choose the tradeoffs that make financial sense. Netflix got rid of their datacenters and moved 100% of the customer billing to the cloud. But Dropbox did the opposite and migrated from AWS to their own datacenter. They're both correct for their situations.

>, when some of the bigger service providers will eventually fall over (which they will).

The big established vendors like AWS, Azure, and GCP ... all have enough business that they will be around for decades. If anybody will exit, I'd guess it would be the smaller players like Oracle Cloud.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_(computer_system)#Histor...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADP_(company)

[3] https://www.fidelityworkplace.com/

[4] https://www.cigna.com/assets/docs/business/medium-employers/...

[5] https://www.computershare.com/us/business/employee-equity-pl...

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose? That every company reinvent the wheel or host everything locally even if it’s not their core competency? Every company has to decide what its “unfair advantage” is and concentrate on that.

I think you are jumping to the "What do you propose?" question before understanding the pain point first. You are asking for a solution before agreeing that there exists a problem. This is the "I'll listen to your problem if the solution is convenient" mentality. It's inside-the-box thinking. It holds you back.

The opposite of depending on another company to host a service is to host it yourself. The average company of any size has at least a dozen external SAAS dependencies. Do you want to have the expense of managing all of those services yourself?

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#43
This is the 3rd time in a week a "Local-First software" overview has been submitted and the 2nd time it's made the front page here. I'm pretty surprised about that because I'm about to release a local-first, offline-first, option for an app I make.

This article also quickly moves past "local-first" software to conflict resolution which, in my opinion, is a distinctly different issue. It's certainly not reason enough to hold off offering users a local-first option.

At this point I believe that since it can be done it should be done. I'll even go so far as to say it's a necessity. At some point users will understand it's a necessity and demand it. All that really needs to happen to convince them is one big incident where they lose access to their data for an extended period of time, or worse yet, lose all their data forever, and it won't matter why or how.

Aside from that, as more app makers start offering local-first options and users begin to see the benefits of that they will begin to demand it. That could take some time, but I expect it's inevitable.

There are other benefits to a local-first approach for developers. Take a "Contacts" app for example. If we have a standard for saving contacts data on the client side that any app could access this would give users and developers options to create and use new apps and features that all use the same data.

CouchDB & PouchDB.js provide a pretty solid and easy way to do this right now. Installed on the user's desktop PC, CouchDB provides the missing link to a robust client side web app runtime environment.

There may be other ways of achieving this right now, but I am not aware of them.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#45
Hello, we've published some more work in this space -- no HTML version yet, but here's a more recent paper on our PushPin project.

https://martin.kleppmann.com/papers/pushpin-papoc20.pdf

You can also try PushPin for yourself: https://github.com/automerge/pushpin/

likely outdated binaries are available here: https://automerge.github.io/pushpin/

Also, we're currently in the midst of a new project called Cambria, exploring some of the consequences and data demands for a new Cambrian-era of software here: https://inkandswitch.github.io/cambria/

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#46

TODO: build a local-first livestream remote conference zoom alternative software

For the audio side, Mumble is okay. Doesn't do feedback cancellation as well as Zoom, and it uses keys to auth which are really confusing for the user (and the UI isn't great at letting you switch which you're using).

But I got a mumble server up and running in no time flat, so it works that way, and the audio quality is amazing - far better than Zoom - as long as everybody's wearing properly-configured headsets.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are jumping to the "What do you propose?" question before understanding the pain point first. You are asking for a solution before agreeing that there exists a problem. This is the "I'll listen to your problem if the solution is convenient" mentality. It's inside-the-box thinking. It holds you back.

The opposite of depending on another company to host a service is to host it yourself. The average company of any size has at least a dozen external SAAS dependencies. Do you want to have the expense of managing all of those services yourself?

That's the easy part.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many far smarter people have said this before, far more eloquently than I can, but in short: Cloud Computing (and SASS even more so) is little more than just another attempt to recreate access/info monopolies, essentially the same profit proposition as existed with closed source software, while pretending to be one of the cool kids and use politically more acceptable (but in this context rather meaningless) terms lik…

What do you propose? That every company reinvent the wheel or host everything locally even if it’s not their core competency? Every company has to decide what its “unfair advantage” is and concentrate on that.

What's wrong with hosting software locally and buying 3rd-party support for the stuff that's "not core competency"? It eliminates a single point of failure.
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