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The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

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Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#61

Post by JSavageOne »

These comments seem to paid a really dystopian picture of Singapore. Of course there are problems with its government, but in my travels, Singapore was one of the most impressive countries I've ever visited. By far the cleanest city I've ever seen, the most futuristic, most efficient, and my favorite food city.

Singaporeans visiting America for the first time are often shocked at how much worse the U.S. was compared to their expectations, almost third-world like. If more Americans visited countries like Singapore and saw how much further ahead they are, maybe for once our people and politicians would have some modesty and fix things instead of just being complacent.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#62

Post by paleogizmo »

Mizza wrote: post #6

Singapore is a weird place. During the flight, the stewardesses walked around and handed everybody something - I was expecting a wet towel, but in fact it was a card in multiple languages which says "If you are about to bring any amount of drugs into the country, you are going to be executed." Lovely first impression to set the tone. Other than the omnipresent paranoia, the thing that struck me as the most bizarre is…

When I travel in to Singapore to visit relatives, seeing WARNING DEATH PENALTY FOR DRUG TRAFFICKERS in big red letters on the customs card always gives me a warm feeling of nostalgia every time I see it, knowing I'll soon be landing in Changi airport. This is actually part of the cleverness of Singapore. With so many migrant workers from many different cultures with different social mores, the ominous warning signs everywhere make it pretty hard to inadvertently get in trouble with the law.

The weird zoning AFAIK is an artifact of the city being planned in the 70s-80s when the idea of mixed-use development wasn't a thing. One particular issue is the lack of high-end apartments within or adjacent to the financial district.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#63

Post by PandaRider »

> Many hardworking Singaporeans today resoundingly choose a government that promises economic stability even as censorship laws become more and more stringent and inequality is rife.

As a Singaporean, this is the point that sticks out as proof that the author has lost touch with local sentiment. In the recent election, young Singaporean citizens felt " especially agitated by Raeesah Khan being hit with a sledgehammer." and thus many voted against the PAP. [0]

Yet, on the author's point of paradox of cyberpunk... there is a kernel of truth. While most Singaporeans wouldn't scrape a temple for a new high tech mall like Jewel, (IMO) most Singaporeans would be okay if it was for a new train station so that we (ironically) can visit Jewel more conveniently.

[0]: https://mothership.sg/2020/07/inderjit-singh-pap-ge2020-crit...

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#64

Post by bitwize »

macando wrote: post #46
bitwize wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how Gibson compared it to Stephenson's burbclaves, which to me is like the literary equivalent of a famous musical artist singing the "Weird Al" Yankovic version of their own song (which has also been known to happen).

Which artist did that?

I know of at least two. The Barenaked Ladies have been known to interject lyrics from "Jerry Springer" into live performances of "One Week". And The Presidents of the United States of America sometimes close out live versions of "Lump" with "And that's all I have to say about that" (the final line of "Gump").

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#65

Post by ValentineC »

api wrote: post #56
arugulum wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Any place that executes people for minor crimes or non-crimes is pretty awful on human rights issues. I am going to press you on this. Which non-crimes lead to capital punishment? And on what basis do you get to decide whether a crime is "minor" or "major"? As for "whataboutism", that defense doesn't hold when you label something as "the scariest dystopia". When you use a superlative, that's exactly the point where…

Having weed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapor... I live in a place that recently legalized marijuana. Nothing bad happened. The result proves quite conclusively that this is a non-crime. While I'm not convinced on blanket drug legalization, especially of certain very dangerous drugs, I can't justify the death penalty for any drug crime. Of course I have a tough time with the death penalty…

> Having weed?

The death penalty would only apply if one had more than 500g of weed on them — that's enough for anywhere between 500 to 1,500 joints [1].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/science/how-much-weed-is-...

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#66

Post by [deleted] »

JSavageOne wrote: post #61

These comments seem to paid a really dystopian picture of Singapore. Of course there are problems with its government, but in my travels, Singapore was one of the most impressive countries I've ever visited. By far the cleanest city I've ever seen, the most futuristic, most efficient, and my favorite food city. Singaporeans visiting America for the first time are often shocked at how much worse the U.S. was compared…

[deleted]

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#67

Post by holografix »

As draconian and harsh a lot of Singaporean laws seem to be it’s hard to argue with the country’s success. I’ve been to Singapore many times and a lot of south east Asia as well and as someone who grew up in a third world tropical country (Rio) I don’t have a romantic view of SEA as many Euros or Americans.

Singapore is a paradise compared with Indonesia, Malaysia etc.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#68

Post by aaron695 »

The fact the "Four Floors of Whores" was government sanctioned always fit well with the Disneyland feel to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchard_Towers

I started seeing the beauty in rubbish after visiting Singapore a few times. There's something quite unsettling when there is absolutely none.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#69

Post by newyankee »

objectivistbrit wrote: post #37
rashkov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, would there be an opportunity to flush any substances down the toilet, at that point? Sounds like a potentially terrifying situation, considering the number of stories I’ve heard from friends and family about accidentally flying with marijuana that they were unaware of was left over in a backpack or whatnot.

The rationale for the drug laws is interesting: when Singapore gained independence in the 1960s, it was essentially a small third-world city without much of a local economy. Lee Kuan Yew realised that Singapore's future lay in becoming a trading city. They built a port, invested in infrastructure, and basically oriented all their policies around making the city-state as attractive as possible for foreign investment.…

Your comment makes absolute sense especially when viewed with my Eastern upbringing lens. Let me use it to add a few more relevant points concerning other Asian countries.

The same logic is used by people like me to justify why only dictatorial state controlled capitalism with quick decision making, very serious censorship laws and crushing of any opponents to ensure single party rule etc. was important for a country like China to progress so fast. A democracy with multiple dissenting opinions in a third world country would mean many vested and crony interests would hijack the country and nothing would happen, e.g. India where only recently has the system started making faster, more transparent decisions.

I always see the kind of nuance you mention especially for a relatively easy to govern small state which leverages its location for growth is missing when discussing the problems of larger nations. Even in the larger outlets in the Western world. It is mostly a case of intellectual laziness where labels and general summary of a complex and large country is used in day to day discussions or articles.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#70

Post by JimDabell »

dehrmann wrote: post #48
Mizza wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah. Can you elaborate a bit on that? What drugs? How did he get caught? Did his nation try to intervene on his behalf?

Yeah, I'm going to call BS. Thailand has executed 3 people since 2004[1]. One was a robbery gone bad. The two in 2009 were drug traffickers with $1M in meth from arrests in 2001[2]. I couldn't find a source, but their names look Thai. Apparently a bunch are waiting to be executed, though. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Thailand 2: http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Bangkok,-drug-traffickers-exe...

Perhaps I’m wrong but I understood the comment to mean that the person went from Singapore to Thailand, bought drugs there, then forgot to get rid of them before returning to Singapore. So Singapore executed them, not Thailand.
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