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TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

reuters.com

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Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#491

Post by nobody0 »

partiallypro wrote: post #441
billfruit wrote: post #195

As someone from the third world this leaves a very bad feeling if it happens. I do expect it runs into legal hurdles before that. Neither Apple nor Google have found TikTok problematic enough to delist them from their app stores. Neither is there charges that TikTok may have broken US laws. Banning something which hasn't broken US laws, on arbitrary grounds shouldn't be possible. The President shouldn't have authorit…

> Ultimately I feel that it is US who has been more to blame (contrary to much of Western media coverage) for the deteriorating US-China relationship, and drumming up the chorus for a new coldwar. Chinese policy seems to have not significantly changed in the last 5 years towards the US, but on the other hand US seemed ever more keen and eger to pursue a hostile attitude towards China. In what universe? The Chinese gl…

> In what universe?

I don't know, maybe the one where the U.S. constantly suprises the world in the last few years.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#492

Post by albacur »

_6fmb wrote: post #484
albacur wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong, Facebook was blocked in China following the July 2009 Ürümqi riots because Facebook refused to release information about Xinjiang independence activists. In March 2009, China blocked access to Google's YouTube due to footage showing Chinese security forces beating Tibetans. Access to other Google online services was denied to users arbitrarily. The search engine remained operational under the condition that th…

What do you mean wrong? You just supported what I said, both companies decided to leave by themselves, one by not cooperating with authorities after the 9/11 of China, and the other by refusing to censor even though the requirements were very clear for google. They would still have services there if they cooperated like TikTok is cooperating with the US admin. TikTok is clearly a case of protectionism whereas the rev…

The companies may have been unblocked if they'd handed over information potentially leading to death of the protestors AND allowed the Chinese state to continue hacking their systems.

If we're not being disingenuous, that's like telling your coworker: "If you come into work today, I'll kill this bystander and rob your house," and then saying: "Hmm, I guess they decided by themselves to not to come into work today."

(And apparently, Facebook has tried multiple times since to re-enter China in one form or another, and China has either refused or quickly re-banned them: https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/25/17612162/facebook-technol...)

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#493

Post by partiallypro »

nobody0 wrote: post #491
partiallypro wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ultimately I feel that it is US who has been more to blame (contrary to much of Western media coverage) for the deteriorating US-China relationship, and drumming up the chorus for a new coldwar. Chinese policy seems to have not significantly changed in the last 5 years towards the US, but on the other hand US seemed ever more keen and eger to pursue a hostile attitude towards China. In what universe? The Chinese gl…

> In what universe? I don't know, maybe the one where the U.S. constantly suprises the world in the last few years.

Strangely another account with few comments/karma, but almost all defending China. At least on HN, this is a recent phenomena.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#494

Post by wadkar »

getmeoutofhere wrote: post #472
partiallypro wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ultimately I feel that it is US who has been more to blame (contrary to much of Western media coverage) for the deteriorating US-China relationship, and drumming up the chorus for a new coldwar. Chinese policy seems to have not significantly changed in the last 5 years towards the US, but on the other hand US seemed ever more keen and eger to pursue a hostile attitude towards China. In what universe? The Chinese gl…

> Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions. If you dig into this deeper, this is literally fake news. The sources for these claims are either the World Uighur Congress, a NED funded organization, or Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist who believes in the rapture, is Anti-LGBT, and praised the Nazis. If you…

> If you are so inclined, you can actually visit Xinjiang yourself and ask Uighurs there about the situation. China has been actively been encouraging foreign inspectors to visit Xinjiang to see the situation.

Oh that sounds news to me. I was under the impression that no foreign media was allowed to freely roam and report in Xinjiang.

Can you please share your sources and any instances of foreign to China (and perhaps non US like say EU/India/Australia/Arabic etc.) media coverage in Xinjiang?

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#495

Post by _6fmb »

albacur wrote: post #492
_6fmb wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean wrong? You just supported what I said, both companies decided to leave by themselves, one by not cooperating with authorities after the 9/11 of China, and the other by refusing to censor even though the requirements were very clear for google. They would still have services there if they cooperated like TikTok is cooperating with the US admin. TikTok is clearly a case of protectionism whereas the rev…

The companies may have been unblocked if they'd handed over information potentially leading to death of the protestors AND allowed the Chinese state to continue hacking their systems. If we're not being disingenuous, that's like telling your coworker: "If you come into work today, I'll kill this bystander and rob your house," and then saying: "Hmm, I guess they decided by themselves to not to come into work today." (…

Luckily we don't live in a cyberpunk world where corporations are above the state. TikTok is obedient to the state and is still getting banned, the US has no excuses.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#496

Post by phatfish »

javagram wrote: post #404
osrec wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Tiktok has taken all the younger crowd away from Facebook and Instagram. Your suggestion is not beyond the realms of possibility for a guy like Zuck (I always think back to the dumb f comment he made a few years ago to remind myself of how he views his users).

“A few years ago” was 17 years ago, for reference, when he was a 19 year old college student. Facebook is working on Reels to compete with TikTok, but I’m sure Zuck would be happy if Trump takes out the competition for him. There may not be an explicit quid-pro-quo but he’s obviously trying to navigate the political situation to avoid either Democrats or Republicans taking real steps to harm his company, since both a…

Facebook already alters what people see, mainly to make sure people spend as much time on Facebook as possible. Or if you pay them to put "Ad" next to an item in a timeline somewhere.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#497

Post by wadkar »

partiallypro wrote: post #490
getmeoutofhere wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions. If you dig into this deeper, this is literally fake news. The sources for these claims are either the World Uighur Congress, a NED funded organization, or Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist who believes in the rapture, is Anti-LGBT, and praised the Nazis. If you…

[flagged]

It would be great if you can share source/links to these claims you’re making.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#498

Post by getmeoutofhere »

partiallypro wrote: post #490
getmeoutofhere wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions. If you dig into this deeper, this is literally fake news. The sources for these claims are either the World Uighur Congress, a NED funded organization, or Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist who believes in the rapture, is Anti-LGBT, and praised the Nazis. If you…

[flagged]

I'll bite. Cite your sources and I'll address them.

> After reading your bio, I'm not surprised that it's full of comments defending the CCP.

Maybe it's because some of us grew up watching the horrors of the Iraq war, and the immense duplicity, chaos, and waste of human potential? Those who opposed the Iraq war were overwhelmingly silenced back then and I refuse to let the same happen now.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#499

Post by altaria »

billfruit wrote: post #195

As someone from the third world this leaves a very bad feeling if it happens. I do expect it runs into legal hurdles before that. Neither Apple nor Google have found TikTok problematic enough to delist them from their app stores. Neither is there charges that TikTok may have broken US laws. Banning something which hasn't broken US laws, on arbitrary grounds shouldn't be possible. The President shouldn't have authorit…

In this specific case we are dealing with an app that gives a company beholden to our enemy the power to snoop on the behavior of tens of millions of our citizens.

In the real world, when you must take into account the realities of power politics sometimes extraordinary steps have to be taken.

China has been engaging in cyber espionage against the US for decades. Like it or not, we are engaged in a struggle with them because we have fundamentally different political worldviews.

These two worldviews cannot coexist.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#500

Post by getmeoutofhere »

wadkar wrote: post #494
getmeoutofhere wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions. If you dig into this deeper, this is literally fake news. The sources for these claims are either the World Uighur Congress, a NED funded organization, or Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist who believes in the rapture, is Anti-LGBT, and praised the Nazis. If you…

> If you are so inclined, you can actually visit Xinjiang yourself and ask Uighurs there about the situation. China has been actively been encouraging foreign inspectors to visit Xinjiang to see the situation. Oh that sounds news to me. I was under the impression that no foreign media was allowed to freely roam and report in Xinjiang. Can you please share your sources and any instances of foreign to China (and perhap…

"Muslim Pakistan says outcry over China detention camps ‘sensationalized’"

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1423536/world

37 countries have also signed a UNHRC letter in support of China's Xinjiang policies, the majority of whom are Muslim countries, and these countries include traditional US allies such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Kuwait.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/which-countries-are-for-or-a...

FWIW, the number of countries in support of Xinjiang have increased to 46 at the time of this comment.

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