The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore • Hacker News Board

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#21

Post by api » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:02 PM UTC

Mizza wrote: post #6

Singapore is a weird place. During the flight, the stewardesses walked around and handed everybody something - I was expecting a wet towel, but in fact it was a card in multiple languages which says "If you are about to bring any amount of drugs into the country, you are going to be executed." Lovely first impression to set the tone. Other than the omnipresent paranoia, the thing that struck me as the most bizarre is…

Singapore is in my opinion the world's scariest dystopia.

There are many dystopias, but few of them are anything but. Nobody moves to North Korea, and the dystopian aspects of other less thoroughly awful places are things everyone complains about and few want to copy.

Singapore is scary because it's a dystopia with many desirable characteristics. It's a dystopia with curb appeal, one that could be sold to people.

The thing about a deal with the devil is that it works. The devil pays out. It only costs you your soul.

As for the absurdly low fertility rate: many creatures refuse to reproduce in zoos. Singapore is a zoo for homo sapiens, a safe environment optimized for every textbook metric of health and built on totalitarianism "with a velvet glove."

As William Gibson summed the place up: "smile or die."

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#22

Post by coldtea » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:02 PM UTC

roystonvassey wrote: post #14

RyJones wrote: post #2

Strange place. I was amazed how many homeless there are - which will be denied, when mentioned. I guess the people sleeping on the walkway to Louis Vuitton island were not homeless? The sleeping people in the underpasses, sleeping under signs saying not to sleep there also?

Plus, the massive number of the elderly working in difficult or dangerous jobs like taxi drivers, janitors, cleaners at food courts. Very strange and somehow felt like an unkind system for people who are not “productive”

>Plus, the massive number of the elderly working in difficult or dangerous jobs like taxi drivers, janitors, cleaners at food courts.

That said, I've seen the same all over the US, especially on less rich states... 70 year olds tending doors at the Walmart, driving cabs, working this or that odd job, etc...

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#23

Post by ordinaryradical » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:02 PM UTC

And for those of you that want the greatest novelist of cyberpunk, William Gibson, and his take on Singapore, "Disney Land with the Death Penalty."[1]

[1] https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#24

Post by RyJones » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

blatant wrote: post #16

RyJones wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on the observation about nothing for kids. I saw some, but even compared to Tokyo or Osaka, it was sparse.

Are Tokyo and Osaka notably sparse compared to American cities?

In some ways, yes; in others, no.

Maybe I was in the wrong parts of Tokyo/Osaka, but I do try to walk all over the place when I travel; there weren't a lot of families going out to eat, or at the malls/shopping areas, or whatever.

However, you'll see train cars full of young kids going to and from school, unsupervised as far as I could tell. There are parks with play equipment all over, and I would run into kids during the day at combinis or 7/11s or whatever being kids. Probably more like what I remember growing up in the 70s was like in the US. I can't imagine a couple dozen third-fourth-fifth graders jumping on a train unsupervised in the US.

A lot more children out riding bikes unsupervised, as well.

I was in Tokyo for the golden week last year; there were lots of kids and parents running around. It might be that Tokyo is an internal tourist destination for that week that skewed my perception, though.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#25

Post by simonebrunozzi » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

The Wired website is a f*cking joke.

I clicked to read the story, and I have pop-ups and banners all over the place. I try to click the "X" to close them, and I can't.

Goodbye, Wired. I'm not going to read the article and I'm not going to read you in the future.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#26

Post by schoen » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

Mizza wrote: post #19

rashkov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, would there be an opportunity to flush any substances down the toilet, at that point? Sounds like a potentially terrifying situation, considering the number of stories I’ve heard from friends and family about accidentally flying with marijuana that they were unaware of was left over in a backpack or whatnot.

You would have to use the airplane toilet. Immediately after stepping off the plane, you are scanned by some kind of scanning IR(?) camera, which I assumed was looking for drugs. I actually had some vitamins in a baggie which I was shitting bricks about, but the actually immigration point was very polite and chill, much moreso than, say, JFK.

I think the IR camera was more likely to have been looking for fever than drugs. I don't mean to say that Changi doesn't have drug-detection mechanisms, but the commonest use of IR cameras at international airport gates is to try to find passengers who are showing signs of infectious disease.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#27

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:13 PM UTC

HHC-Hunter wrote: post #3

My biggest disappointment about Singapore is the censorship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Singapo... My biggest boast about Singapore are the privacy laws and technology infrastructure. Singapore could be great, if only a few things were to change.

The PAP is slowly losing popularity. A second political party gaining power could change things.

My take on the censorship and police state is that it's there so there aren't significant racial or religious tensions.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#28

Post by kingbirdy » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:13 PM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #23

And for those of you that want the greatest novelist of cyberpunk, William Gibson, and his take on Singapore, "Disney Land with the Death Penalty."[1] [1] https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/

That link is in the fourth sentence of the article.

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#29

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:18 PM UTC

rashkov wrote: post #18

Mizza wrote: post #6

Singapore is a weird place. During the flight, the stewardesses walked around and handed everybody something - I was expecting a wet towel, but in fact it was a card in multiple languages which says "If you are about to bring any amount of drugs into the country, you are going to be executed." Lovely first impression to set the tone. Other than the omnipresent paranoia, the thing that struck me as the most bizarre is…

I wonder, would there be an opportunity to flush any substances down the toilet, at that point? Sounds like a potentially terrifying situation, considering the number of stories I’ve heard from friends and family about accidentally flying with marijuana that they were unaware of was left over in a backpack or whatnot.

I know someone who accidentally brought a joint into Singapore but wasn't caught. The thresholds seem high enough that there aren't random tourists getting hung over it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_Drugs_Act_(Singapore...

I also wonder what would happen if you declare the drugs. Would they assume good intent (because you declared the drugs), and let you surrender them without penalty?

Re: The Fantasy and the Cyberpunk Futurism of Singapore

#30

Post by serf » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

api wrote: post #21

Mizza wrote: post #6

Singapore is a weird place. During the flight, the stewardesses walked around and handed everybody something - I was expecting a wet towel, but in fact it was a card in multiple languages which says "If you are about to bring any amount of drugs into the country, you are going to be executed." Lovely first impression to set the tone. Other than the omnipresent paranoia, the thing that struck me as the most bizarre is…

Singapore is in my opinion the world's scariest dystopia. There are many dystopias, but few of them are anything but. Nobody moves to North Korea, and the dystopian aspects of other less thoroughly awful places are things everyone complains about and few want to copy. Singapore is scary because it's a dystopia with many desirable characteristics. It's a dystopia with curb appeal, one that could be sold to people. The…

>Singapore is scary because it's a dystopia with many desirable characteristics. It's a dystopia with curb appeal, one that could be sold to people.

that's exactly my impression, too.

My friends tell me how great the food is, and how clean the area is; meanwhile i'm thinking about caning laws and drug executions -- this tells me that Singapore has enough appeal that some folks can sort of breeze past the really grim stuff.

That's a scary trait.