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Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

cnbc.com

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Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#451

Post by throwaway2474 »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

> If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app

If you want to talk to someone in China, you have to use WeChat and have your entire conversation mined by the CCP. There’s no encryption and no alternative. The writing has been on the wall for years that the US will be left with no choice but to blacklist Chinese apps in the same manner.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#452

Post by specialist »

topicseed wrote: post #321
winstonmanor89 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, no war drum needed, just be bilateral, they ban our shit, we ban there shit. They open their market, we open our market. Easy.

The problem is that if they had opened their market to foreign corporations, their own "shit" like you say, would never have been as great and strong (at least locally) as it is now. If you open your market too early and don't protect your own elements, they will get crushed and you will be at the mercy of other powers. Look at the UK, look at Germany, look at the EU... Having to please two superpowers and doing so b…

When should China open their domestic markets to foreign competition?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#454

Post by free_rms »

sebmellen wrote: post #194
free_rms wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's... literally true, you can look up photos of turtle shells with characters etched into them on Wikipedia. That doesn't mean they're perfect or blessed but they've definitely been there the whole time.

I'm half Basque. The Basques have been in Europe for 5,500+ years. There are plenty of loosely-defined cultures which are over 4,000 years old.

If I recall correctly, Basques also have a history of reacting poorly when people try to deny their culture exists or eradicate it.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#455

Post by shlant »

glenstein wrote: post #306
envy2 wrote: post #271

This is a terrible development and precedent. Whatever you think of the CCP and the Chinese approach to censorship and tech, building our own 'Great Firewall' and banning foreign apps/services we don't like is not the answer. It just legitimises the Chinese approach and sends us further down the road to a fragmented rather than open internet.

I think it's reasonable to do for national security purposes, just like I think it's reasonable to disentangle U.S. industries from Chinese companies that pose national security threats and steal trade secrets. So as a matter of principle, at least, I'm fine with it. I can't say I feel great about the wisdom of banning Tiktok in particular, but I won't let that confuse me into disagreeing with the underlying principl…

> I think it's reasonable to do for national security purposes

Haven't the most egregious erosions of civil liberties (Patriot Act for example) been implemented using the same argument? Not commenting on the validity of your position specifically, but your reasoning for it seems like it could be applied to just about anything regardless of how well it fits into the idea of a free and open democracy

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#456

Post by eru »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

It is unfair: unfair to the Chinese people whose access is censored.

Adding an extra wrong on top, doesn't make a right.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#457

Post by eru »

dmch-1 wrote: post #401
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's unfair, but when you defend something for moral reasons or claim to have a moral high ground, you should stick with it even if it's unfair, right? The West has always said that the Chinese bans to Western social media and tech companies were authoritarian and antidemocratic. How is this less so?

I defend free trade/market not for moral reasons but for efficiency reasons. But when something as big as China violates it, the efficiency breaks, and there is no point in sticking to it for moral reasons.

What makes you think so?

The classic arguments for eg free trade suggest that even if the other countries decide to sink stones in their harbours, you still benefit from unilateral free trade.

(And that's also why free trade agreements are a bit silly from an economic point of view.)

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#458

Post by SXX »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #347
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

I agree it's unfair, but when you defend something for moral reasons or claim to have a moral high ground, you should stick with it even if it's unfair, right? The West has always said that the Chinese bans to Western social media and tech companies were authoritarian and antidemocratic. How is this less so?

No freedom to the enemies of freedom.

China is openly show everyone that they'll censor and force state-backed monopolies in every area they have control over. There is nothing wrong regarding morals if means help to stop totalitarian system from spreading.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#459

Post by anon9001 »

caymanjim wrote: post #430
Twisell wrote: post #293

Not US citizen here. Can someone explain how in a democracy the chief executive can singlehandedly decide to ban a media only a few month before elections? I can't make any sense of that, it seems wrong at so many levels...

The short answer is that he can't. The president has no power to ban TikTok. The president also has no control over how the app is distributed or its connectivity. He can say whatever he wants, and he can strongarm the agencies he has some control over (like the FCC), but there's simply no mechanism by which a ban can be enforced, legal or technical. Unless Google and Apple decide to voluntarily remove it from their…

I want you to be right, but I don't think you are.

He's likely to issue some kind of executive order forcing bytedance to divest tiktok to continue operations. We may see some DoJ or FCC enforcement action that's effectively a "ban" (for users) while only being legally a temporary disruption of service pending compliance (for lawmakers, judges, enforcement agencies, etc to be okay with it). As we have learned over the last 4 years, the president has near absolute control over all federal actions.

I think the safe bet is a bunch of saber rattling that ends with some US entity buying tiktok.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#460

Post by eru »

chaostheory wrote: post #288
baddox wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. It’s weird to point out this double standard but then apparently take the side of both countries banning foreign media companies.

Why give China access to our domestic market when they refuse to give us access theirs? What do you propose then?

Why restrict what American customers can do just because China restricts what Chinese customers can do?

Do you also suppose that it would be a good idea for you to hit your head repeatedly against a wall, if I start doing so?

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