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Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

cnbc.com

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Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#281

Post by Lammy »

hooande wrote: post #97
Lammy wrote: post #67

I'm curious what they know about TikTok that isn't public. This seems too drastic for just trade posturing.

TikTok is basically a tool of [SOME NATION]'s military intelligence. Not going to say which nation, but this is well known in the security community

I 100% believe this, and it seems odd that anyone wouldn't suspect that by default, in the same way one should expect DARPA strings still attached to DARPA's Silicon Valley corporate-children.

I'd like to see some evidence before describing that as anything more than a gut suspicion, though, and definitely not "public knowledge". This type of Executive reaction reads more like a response to a targeted threat and not just the general background noise of "all your base are belong to China" like over the past few years.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#282

Post by Lammy »

asutekku wrote: post #276
hooande wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is basically a tool of [SOME NATION]'s military intelligence. Not going to say which nation, but this is well known in the security community

There has been literally zero proof about that as far as i know. If you do have some compelling evidence apart from “the x community knows this”, please share them. The issues risen in the “famous” whitepaper about TikTok’s alleged “security issues” were just pretty much standard fingerprinting that almost all apps do nowadays, like it or not.

This will never be something that can be "proven" and insisting on seeing proof is just a way to halt discussion of the entire topic.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#283

Post by pldr1234 »

grazhero99 wrote: post #116

I'm more worried about the effect this will have on the overall public perception of the TikTok issue than anything else. During a time of such intense civil unrest, when people are letting strong emotions and groupthink guide them in lieu of reason, I have a feeling this that many will be quick to jump on a bandwagon that's unduly sympathetic to TikTok. I think I have a pretty good idea of how the media (both social…

That's my fear too.

People have such short memories, and media cycles are too quick. I'm the least fan of Trump, but this is truly one area that the US is taking a stronger stance on than even in my own home country (which I considered more moral, until now).

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#284

Post by pldr1234 »

Udik wrote: post #272

So what happens from the practical point of view? Is the government going to delete an app from the phones of 80 million people? Really curious to see this one.

It would be a legal request via Apple.

But from a truly practical point of view, TikTok will just end up replaced by a homegrown version. The real question is, who's homegrown version will be the winner?

I believe FB and Snap are both privately working on a replacement. Not sure about others.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#285

Post by mFixman »

vwat wrote: post #280

From first principles reasoning, this is a good idea. We don’t ban Chinese websites, books or products. Although we tax their products more now. Apps aren’t like physical commodities. They can be used to gather data, quite invasively, shape and form public opinion in a new and more visceral way, as well as take advantage of exploits. Admittedly websites can do that too, but the scale of adoption of Tiktok makes this…

> [...] we gain almost nothing by having tiktok around.

We gain an outlet or creativity that's particularly fun for teens. You might as well say that we gain nothing by banning skateboards, video games, or rock music.

I would agree more with the ban of there was any evidence of nefarious data mining by TikTok. Outside of weird Internet rumors they only seem to collect basic user data and whatever you write in your profile.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#286

Post by mrtksn »

pldr1234 wrote: post #277
markosaric wrote: post #273

Ban Facebook and Google too? Their data collection is so much more powerful. Never seen TikTok scripts anywhere while most apps and sites send your personal data to FB and Google. Pretty much every American is tracked by Google and FB no matter whether they have an account or whether they install their app.

Without a credible source to back up your assertion that "their data collection is so much more powerful", this is a pretty empty statement. I also believe that we need to have a healthy concern for Chinese friendly agents/resources acting in concert, even on (or maybe especially on) technical sites like HN.

There's a very credible source from 7 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

But "their" isn't Google or Facebook but the surveillance agencies that are directly plugged in. Much like of what TikTok is accused of doing.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#287

Post by pldr1234 »

fiblye wrote: post #81
croutonwhiskers wrote: post #45

Wasn't microsoft trying to acquire tiktok? Why not just let that happen rather than try to do something so extreme? I'm not partial to tiktok at all but this is way to much of a big government move than I feel comfortable with. Isn't this a violation of our first amendment rights?

Honestly, Microsoft could purchase TikTok in its entirety and I still wouldn’t believe that it’s anything more than a front for the Chinese government. MS has a reputation for being exceedingly cozy with governments. No matter how they try to spin off or rebrand this product or abandon ties to the old parent company, I’d never trust it as much as something entirely new. If the NSA tried putting out a social media net…

I didn't know how to voice my feelings and thoughts on this, but your post sums it all up perfectly. Thank you.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#288

Post by chaostheory »

baddox wrote: post #260
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

> it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. It’s weird to point out this double standard but then apparently take the side of both countries banning foreign media companies.

Why give China access to our domestic market when they refuse to give us access theirs? What do you propose then?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#289

Post by pantalaimon »

vwat wrote: post #280

From first principles reasoning, this is a good idea. We don’t ban Chinese websites, books or products. Although we tax their products more now. Apps aren’t like physical commodities. They can be used to gather data, quite invasively, shape and form public opinion in a new and more visceral way, as well as take advantage of exploits. Admittedly websites can do that too, but the scale of adoption of Tiktok makes this…

> we gain almost nothing by having tiktok around. We lose nothing by banning it

That's bold. There used to be a principle of freedom that allowed things not explicitly banned, and banning things would require a good reason.

Is this kind of capriciousness the new normal now?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#290

Post by vwat »

flywheel wrote: post #251
coliveira wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China couldn't even figure out how to make ball point pens until 2017. China changes very quickly! In 2020 they have 5G technology that blows competitors' pants off. They are sending missions to mars, have more electric cars than any other country, and just yesterday they released a home-grown competitor to GPS.

LOL... GPS.. the US has been doing GPS for 42 YEARS. China is WAAAAAY behind. Call me back when they can produce jet engines that even come close to matching anything the US produces. 5G tech? LOL. Whatever makes you think you are happy, I guess.

You’ve been here for ten years?
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