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Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

businessinsider.com

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Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#441

Post by apta »

russli1993 wrote: post #292
Nightshaxx wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accusations against China is that they do not follow the rules. Stealing IP is very illegal in the US but that didn't (allegedly) stop Waweii. So just saying "make more rules" is not a valid solution if the accusations are true. Byte dance already does store data in the US, but the only way to 100% prove they aren't sending data to China is to regularly audit ISP logs.

Are you talking about Huawei? If there is IP and IP infringement why not sue the company? I thought there is tons of cases of IP lawsuits each year? Huawei has operations in many markets like Europe with strong rule of law, sue Huawei in Europe. There are two law suits against Huawei from Cisco and T-Mobile. The first case both parties settled out of court. Second case is about a phone test arm, and already settled a…

> But TikTok employees in the US office are all American.

Citation needed. And just because they're American doesn't mean that they won't send data to China.

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#442

Post by jianshen »

xnx wrote: post #376

It appears as though very few Hacker News commenters have spent any time using Tiktok. It is the only enjoyable, enriching social media service I've ever used. Most everything many of us liked about the old/weird internet is present on Tiktok right now: almost no ads or commercial presense, personal content from real people (not hyper produced productions from influencers and pros), weird content, niche content, orga…

My personal opinion is people don't realize the app/algorithm doesn't just reward the viewers, it rewards the creators. I do video/photo work outside of coding and at first what got me hooked was the effortless video tools (useful realtime effects, non-generic music). Not a video editor? Someone in my feed already posted a 15s tutorial so you learn how to create as you consume. Then after posting a few vids as a joke (cuz 15s videos couldn't be anything meaningful right?) the algorithm rewarded me with 100k's views that IG/YouTube/FB/Twitch/Vimeo COMBINED could never give me. Then they randomly invited me to their Slack where I could get tips on how to use the latest new effect, upcoming hashtags and give feedback to devs. I'm not a full time content creator, I'm old and I'm not a looker but for the first time, I felt like I could be a content creator and all I did was post a few 15s videos. It just works.

I don't want to debate the politics, security issues or your judgement of the content. I want whoever comes up with the next killer app to learn from what they were able to achieve because they hit an amazing product market fit and I'm hoping the HN crowd can at least understand that. /rant

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#443

Post by billfruit »

jjcon wrote: post #363
billfruit wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even sale to Microsoft would looks legally dubious I think, if federal government is seen to be involved in brokering such a deal or ordering Microsoft to do it. I don't think the federal government or at least the executive should have that kind of authority like asking/forcing Microsoft to do a specific thing. I don't know about China, but US executive and legislative have limits to their authority and I doubt such…

> I don't think the federal government or at least the executive should have that kind of authority like asking/forcing Microsoft to do a specific thing. No you misunderstand - Read the article, TikTok would sell off to keep operating in the US (just like Amazon had to sell off data centers to operate them in the EU). The US government wouldn’t be forcing Microsoft, just saying if you want to operate with American da…

I am not sure this is even a response to anything. It looks like the first US move in a new confrontation with China. Merely treating is as a response, isn't sufficiently strong explanation in my opinion.

More over I don't think President has power/authority to ban anything at all, let alone apps on privately administered app stores. President isn't a dictator elected by the people.

There might be legitimate grounds to take action against an app/service like data breaches or copyright infringement, even terms of right violations, but nothing of that seems to be the case. Even if it was the case, it would have to go through the legal justice system.

From what I have seen, the theory of threats to national security being bandied about isn't substantial nor concrete enough to hold in courts.

So if TikTok does not run afoul of our laws, there shouldn't be grounds for banning that or any other app citing vague and theoretical national security considerations.

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#444

Post by kiba »

fqye wrote: post #258

If the US forced ByteDance to sell Tiktok, the US would lose its last bit of moral high ground in China, the spirit of free market and rule by law. If you are worried about data leakage to China, you set rules and law and enforce them. That is what China is doing. They asked Apple and other cloud service provider to store data in China. The US could setup clear rules and regulations about where to put data of US user…

The Chinese have their firewall, censoring anything that the regime doesn't like. This not only muffle the criticism of your citizens, but also criticisms of the American people and the rest of the world.

This is for tit for tat. The United States is an open society. Why should we let an authoritarian regime gains influence over my country?

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#445

Post by Seasonwreckage »

iKevinShah wrote: post #435
mantap wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I tried tiktok it seemed to only give me videos by British schoolkids. Maybe the content is better in some regions than others but the whole region locking thing stinks.

One of the factors might be region but also: > Consumers (audience) side: Tik Tok use AI to calculate what content will be the best fit for the consumer. When consumer use the app, consumers even do not need to put their preference. AI will automatically get a sizeable database of the consumers’ behaviors. Source: https://digital.hbs.edu/platform-digit/submission/tik-tok-us...

i need my freedom

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#446

Post by pacija »

kiba wrote: post #444
fqye wrote: post #258

If the US forced ByteDance to sell Tiktok, the US would lose its last bit of moral high ground in China, the spirit of free market and rule by law. If you are worried about data leakage to China, you set rules and law and enforce them. That is what China is doing. They asked Apple and other cloud service provider to store data in China. The US could setup clear rules and regulations about where to put data of US user…

The Chinese have their firewall, censoring anything that the regime doesn't like. This not only muffle the criticism of your citizens, but also criticisms of the American people and the rest of the world. This is for tit for tat. The United States is an open society. Why should we let an authoritarian regime gains influence over my country?

Indeed comrade. The best way to remain an open society is by shielding ourselves from those evil authoritarians. With our firewall, of course.

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#447

Post by chvid »

fqye wrote: post #434
throwaway189262 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not realize it was Xi and his propaganda that caused a massive change in opinion of the west? The state news agencies constantly blames everything on foreigners and the west. It has nothing to do with financial crises or BLM or whatever. Financial crisis also happened in 2001 and 80's, they happen all the time. BLM protests are insignificant, US has protests constantly because they are not restricted by govern…

> Do you not realize it was Xi and his propaganda that caused a massive change in opinion of the west? The state news agencies constantly blames everything on foreigners and the west. I don't know where you got that from. CCP stopped long ago painting the US / western countries as enemies and sources of today's problems of China. The fact is, Chinese and China in general are much less ideology sensitive now. Given cu…

One of the things that "scholars" Martin Jacques (China-friendly academic commentator) and Steve Bannon (crazy Trump guy) agree on is that 2008 was the pivotal event.

A wave of nationalism has swept the western world. From Trump in the US, to Brexit, to numerable populist nationalist parties turning mainstream in Europe (AFD, Front National, Sverigedemokraterna etc.) all stemming out of the frustration of lack of prospects for the common man.

Rather than going to the root cause populist nationalism blames the other; the Chinese, the immigrants, the scientist, the media. And let conflict drive the agenda.

Incredible that it is a widely held view in the west that it is changed Chinese politics (the rise of Xi) that has bought forward the change.

Unfortunately I don't think things will get better any time soon.

They might even accelerate further.

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#448

Post by duaoebg »

The one thing I liked about MS was that it didn’t have a successful social media asset. This allowed it to stay generally apolitical and out of the fray.

This will be the beginning of the end of MS. (As opposed to the middle of the end of a very drawn out decline.)

I’m sure they see it as another Skype. The US govt subsidizing an acquisition to get access to data.

TikTok optimizes hard for popularity which involves many unpleasant choices in their algorithm. MS will feel compelled to ‘fix’ this both for a perceived social good but also for the benefit of the US government who is no doubt subsidizing this.

MS will become a target for lobbying by interest groups and the US government to a degree it has never dealt with and I don’t think MS can handle it. This is not the same as criticism for being a monopoly or making crappy software.

The best case scenario will be they screw with the algorithm early enough and bad enough that people leave en mass.

These are the same people who couldn’t leave Skype alone.

Re: Microsoft is reportedly in talks to buy TikTok's US operations

#449

Post by glglwty »

khuey wrote: post #345
mullingitover wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge relief that ByteDance is not the government of China. What level of foreign ownership makes a company purely foreign controlled? If funds controlled by Chinese nationals bought stakes in Facebook/Twitter/Alphabet, wouldn't that put them in the same category? What portion of ByteDance would have to be owned by non-Chinese people before it would be in the clear?

The premise of why a Chinese company(ies) should be singled out in this way is that China is a totalitarian state where people and corporations are subject to the absolute will of the Communist Party so "ByteDance is not the government of China" isn't going to convince anyone who believes this action is justified. If Facebook/Twitter/Alphabet were to be acquired by Chinese interests that would almost certainly be blo…

Should the US also ban foreign TV shows, music, books originated from totalitarian states? Because the producers are subject to the will of their governments and might be compelled into spreading propaganda although it has not happen?

I personally believe that freedom will prevail and this kind of race to the bottom towards censorship and executive branch unilateralism is sad.

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