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Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

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Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#191

Post by dirtyid »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

>unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China

They're not.

Bing has been in China forever.

Western platforms could always compete in China if they assent to domestic censorship laws like every Chinese platform. That's "fair" considering how onerous and costly compliance is. Western platforms simply have not invested in the necessary mass human moderation until the last few years, after confronted with the same violence that forced Chinese platforms to lock down post 2009 minority riots. Hence why Facebook and Google was open to engineering Chinese compliant versions after improving their moderation infrastructure following failed revolutions, genocides, mass shootings.

The reality is TikTok operates in US under US laws like how Bing operates in China under Chinese laws. There's nothing inherently unfair. The issue is asymmetric vulnerability due to fundamentally different governance systems. US could never leverage even western platforms operating legally in China to undermine China due to Chinese content controls - see China deleting diplomatic tweets on Chinese social media. But China can potentially leverage TikTok operating legally to undermine US. But instead of transferring TikTok to US ownership, which is merely anticompetitive, Trump decides to ban via executive action which is... upright undemocratic. That said, it's totally justifiable on security basis. But just remember China-hawks in current admin have no problem becoming the thing they wish to fight. That's what Americans should fear.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#192

Post by euix »

magicsmoke wrote: post #120
euix wrote: post #48

Shows how far the balance of power has shifted in the last 20 years back when the Chinese government was banning western products to prevent "spiritual pollution" and "western influence". Now we got the reverse and it's also for ideological reasons (at least at face value). Wonder if WeChat is next. That would be fairly effective in prevent overseas Chinese from communicating with the mainland and a lot of mom and po…

I think overseas Chinese have bigger problems to worry about than Wechat getting banned. Based on the trajectory the world is heading in, we might be seeing Pacific War 2.0 and internment camps in a few decades.

Could be, but we will all be old men by then, and given our profession, probably have a sizable chunk of change in the bank. Those that are vulnerable will be able to vote with their feet and enjoy comfortable retirement in South American or something.

It's the next generation that will truly suffer, because they will belong to neither country and be looked at as potential fifth columns by both.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#193

Post by katbyte »

coliveira wrote: post #132

The US is acting like a desperate country that has no idea what it is doing. It is evident to the whole world that the US doesn't want to compete at the level of high technology, which is what the Chinese have achieved in the last couple of years. Whenever a country tries to create a fence around it, then it is just displaying weakness. It would be much more constructive for the US to recognize that they're getting b…

China has more fences then America.. great firewall, banned social media apps...

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#194

Post by sebmellen »

free_rms wrote: post #186
khuey wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "X thousand years of history" is a myth Chinese people believe about themselves doesn't make it true or a useful way of understanding anything.

It's... literally true, you can look up photos of turtle shells with characters etched into them on Wikipedia. That doesn't mean they're perfect or blessed but they've definitely been there the whole time.

I'm half Basque. The Basques have been in Europe for 5,500+ years. There are plenty of loosely-defined cultures which are over 4,000 years old.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#195

Post by grazhero99 »

coliveira wrote: post #132

The US is acting like a desperate country that has no idea what it is doing. It is evident to the whole world that the US doesn't want to compete at the level of high technology, which is what the Chinese have achieved in the last couple of years. Whenever a country tries to create a fence around it, then it is just displaying weakness. It would be much more constructive for the US to recognize that they're getting b…

I don't think this is about competition. It's about a belligerent foreign government posing a threat to national security.

Now you could argue that's a classic Dubya style ad hoc excuse designed to mask the government's true intentions with this, but I really don't think so. China's behavior is a legitimate threat for which shrugging and saying "let the free market handle it" seems an incredibly dangerous stance to take in my opinion.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#196

Post by temp20160423 »

xxpor wrote: post #150
cromwellian wrote: post #136

This will be a huge gift horse to Zuckerberg/Facebook and I have a sneaking suspicion it's a project of Peter Thiel. There are a lot of remedies that could be taken if we suspect TikTok of malfeasance, but a straight up ban? I smell fish.

If it is a project of Peter Thiel, I would hope that would finally wake everyone up to how bad faith calling himself a libertarian is.

I disagree. This would prove why big government is dangerous. This is the perfect example of how powerful individuals can leverage governmental power to enrich themselves. He's like Trump, pointing out all these problems while exploiting them to the max.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#197

Post by kadoban »

ptx wrote: post #178
hourislate wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered a Chinese App on 10's of millions of phones across the US and the security implications? I would think an adversary like China could very well take advantage of that.

Good point. By the same reasoning, China should of course ban American apps. Edit: As they have done. (So don't complain about unfair market access, as they clearly have good reasons. Right?)

Don't they already?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#198

Post by cromwellian »

temp20160423 wrote: post #196
xxpor wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is a project of Peter Thiel, I would hope that would finally wake everyone up to how bad faith calling himself a libertarian is.

I disagree. This would prove why big government is dangerous. This is the perfect example of how powerful individuals can leverage governmental power to enrich themselves. He's like Trump, pointing out all these problems while exploiting them to the max.

So you're letting him off the hook for hypocrisy? There's lots of other libertarians and non-libertarians playing by the rules and not benefitting from crony capitalism. Are you excusing Thiel for being a total hypocrite (e.g. making his money from government contracts) all the while telling everyone else to be a rugged individualist?

Are we supposed to admire looting the government as a kind of 5 dimensional chess, where the profiteers weren't actually grifters, but merely trying to make a philosophical point?

You know in security research, there are white hats, who find the exploits, notify about them, and are rewarded with recognition and sometimes bounties.

And there are black hats who use the exploits to pillage. These people don't get credit for 'raising awareness'

And in my view, Palantir is not a white hat libertarian exercise demonstrating how crony capitalism is bad and how we need smaller government.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#199

Post by [deleted] »

hibern8 wrote: post #166
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not super relevant to this case, because TikTok itself is banned in China; Chinese users have to use Douyin, which runs the same platform but doesn't share content with TikTok.

It is still owned by the same company.

[deleted]

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#200

Post by rsa25519 »

bezmenov wrote: post #59
zelly wrote: post #35

Hopefully this will raise awareness on PWAs. Hopefully using PWAs on mobile will be normalized by the 18-24 year olds. TikTok's PWA seems intentionally gimped (you can't even search) but I will bet it will suddenly start working once it disappears from the Western app stores. Is there anything TikTok does that the Web Platform + WASM cannot do? (besides spying)

What’s to stop the US from blacklisting the PWA too?

The technical barrier. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I think Chrome & Firefox would put up a much bigger fight than App/Play Store. The latter is already a walled garden.
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