Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#51

Post by ISL » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

dependenttypes wrote: post #20

akersten wrote: post #2

Under what authority? A dozen paragraphs in the article and not one questioning whether he can actually do this. What would such an executive action look like? An EO to Apple and Google to de-list the app from their stores? Why should they comply? What's he going to do when ByteDance uploads the .apk somewhere? Sick of media treating this man like a zoo exhibit instead of the advanced persistent threat to US democrac…

Under the Bernstein v. United States ruling software source code is protected under the 1st amendment, I do not know if this holds true for binaries as well though. I guess if TikTok distributed only its source code and it was compiled by the user the gov would be able to do nothing about it.

If TikTok distributed its source code, people would have a much clearer understanding of things that the app does and doesn't do.

One could not inspect the data flow after it left the client, but it would still show far more than we normally see from major social-media vendors.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#52

Post by quotemstr » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

zelly wrote: post #35

Hopefully this will raise awareness on PWAs. Hopefully using PWAs on mobile will be normalized by the 18-24 year olds. TikTok's PWA seems intentionally gimped (you can't even search) but I will bet it will suddenly start working once it disappears from the Western app stores. Is there anything TikTok does that the Web Platform + WASM cannot do? (besides spying)

If the state can order tech companies to blacklist apps, the state can order tech companies to add certain sites to their "malicious browsing" filters or order ISPs to IP-block arbitrary hosts. The state simply has no legal authority under which it may ban apps. If the big tech companies roll over for this and say "yes, sir", they'll do anything.

I'm a huge proponent of regulating big tech companies, but all regulation needs to done under the framework of public and universal rules established in advance, not randomly banning individual apps without proof of wrongdoing or a way to mount a defense.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#53

Post by rydre » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

If there is any rule of law in the country, this should be against the constitution.

If the US does this, they'll be losing a lot of goodwill founders from other countries have about the US.

The US is uniquely thought of as a part of every country for business. If you're from third world country but you'd like to do a tech business in the US, you're free to do so without much hurdles by the government. Open competition. No other country is like that.

This is what separated the US from the rest of countries like China. You'd dream that in case your startup got big, you'd move to the US, and hire quality engineers/researchers there. You'd like American protection on free speech to protect your company. Your company would not be banned for 'hurting' people. Rule of law. This is increasingly no longer the case.

Now the US is starting to feel like China and the EU more and more. Even if China's economy was bigger than the US, the US would still be in a good position because of their appearance and rule of law. When it's going to be similar to China, why not just do business with China first altogether since they're going to be the bigger economy? China is slowly becoming more liberal to founders from 3rd world countries now. While America seems to not notice this right now, China is slowly becoming more open to competition from poorer countries. The difference is stark even compared to 5 years ago.

Maybe China might not be so much fair right now to American companies because of a power imbalance where the US is too far ahead on certain things that they feel like after their companies catch up, they want to allow open competition. And they seem to progressing to this trajectory.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#54

Post by tossaway69 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

dependenttypes wrote: post #20

akersten wrote: post #2

Under what authority? A dozen paragraphs in the article and not one questioning whether he can actually do this. What would such an executive action look like? An EO to Apple and Google to de-list the app from their stores? Why should they comply? What's he going to do when ByteDance uploads the .apk somewhere? Sick of media treating this man like a zoo exhibit instead of the advanced persistent threat to US democrac…

Under the Bernstein v. United States ruling software source code is protected under the 1st amendment, I do not know if this holds true for binaries as well though. I guess if TikTok distributed only its source code and it was compiled by the user the gov would be able to do nothing about it.

they could just block the servers, no?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#55

Post by dependenttypes » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:41 AM UTC

nan0 wrote: post #49

Could this be the same as a tit for tat measure like with tariffs? China has banned a lot of US services and forced US corporations to pull content from their stores too [0] [1]. Genuinely asking and want to remain open-minded about this. 0: https://www.gadgetsnow.com/slideshows/10-popular-apps-and-we... 1: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news18.com/amp/news/tech/ch...

non-amp link: https://www.news18.com/news/tech/china-forces-apple-to-take-...

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#56

Post by zelly » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:41 AM UTC

akersten wrote: post #2

Under what authority? A dozen paragraphs in the article and not one questioning whether he can actually do this. What would such an executive action look like? An EO to Apple and Google to de-list the app from their stores? Why should they comply? What's he going to do when ByteDance uploads the .apk somewhere? Sick of media treating this man like a zoo exhibit instead of the advanced persistent threat to US democrac…

> What's he going to do when ByteDance uploads the .apk somewhere?

This is a social network which gains from network effects / usage. A social network only accessible to Android users is a ghetto. The vast majority of young people in America use iPhones.

The last time the majority of internet users managed to disobey the government was the heyday of torrenting and Megaupload. That's not going to happen with today's users and today's walled gardens.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#57

Post by Abishek_Muthian » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:42 AM UTC

What are the predictions for which U.S. tech company would be banned by China as retaliation?

My top pick is -

LinkedIn (Most other U.S. social networks are already banned in mainland China anyways, then again LinkedIn is being used extensively by Chinese to do Business with outside world; So I wonder whether China would dare to pull the plug).

Or it may just ban Instagram, Snapchat in HongKong as there is no ban for such U.S. apps in HongKong currently and that technical governance differences with mainland is fast evaporating. But, I wonder whether banning apps in HK would amount to appropriate retaliation in terms of market size.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#58

Post by billfruit » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:43 AM UTC

ve55 wrote: post #3

akersten wrote: post #2

Under what authority? A dozen paragraphs in the article and not one questioning whether he can actually do this. What would such an executive action look like? An EO to Apple and Google to de-list the app from their stores? Why should they comply? What's he going to do when ByteDance uploads the .apk somewhere? Sick of media treating this man like a zoo exhibit instead of the advanced persistent threat to US democrac…

China is likely considered by many to be a threat to democracy, which is part of the reasoning behind this

That cannot justify/authorize possible arbitrary measures by the US executive. US presidents powers are certainly not absolute.

Also this while apple and Google play stores have not found problems with the TikTok to kick it off their app stores.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#59

Post by bezmenov » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:43 AM UTC

zelly wrote: post #35

Hopefully this will raise awareness on PWAs. Hopefully using PWAs on mobile will be normalized by the 18-24 year olds. TikTok's PWA seems intentionally gimped (you can't even search) but I will bet it will suddenly start working once it disappears from the Western app stores. Is there anything TikTok does that the Web Platform + WASM cannot do? (besides spying)

What’s to stop the US from blacklisting the PWA too?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#60

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:43 AM UTC

tasogare wrote: post #36

barrkel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republics are democracies. They're just not direct democracies. This might also help: https://mises.org/wire/stop-saying-were-republic-not-democra...

No, republic is just a form of government, which may or may not be democratic. People’s Republic of China, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the Islamic Republic of Iran are prime exemples.

[deleted]