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A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

theatlantic.com

441–450 of 497 posts

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>orchestra/symphony, opera/musicals You've chosen the arts which require massive organisation and expense. What about painters, singer-songwriters, writers, poets, etc.?

What about being a painter, singer, writer or poet requires a four year degree? In some cases (in particular, the visual arts) conventional wisdom seems to be that going to school for such a thing narrows artistic vision and creativity into a box. Actually organizing events requires an entirely different skill set- while having an appreciation for the arts absolutely can help pull off a successful event, it is by no…

In visual arts, deep knowledge of what other artists have done, of history, of literature, of geometry, of techniques, of composition, colour theory, etc., etc., generally at least some of these things are crucially important for a visual artist, such as a painter, a print-maker, or a sculptor. Random local artists off the top of my head, Bill Hammond, Tony de Lautour, and Neil Dawson all draw very heavily from at least a few of these things.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#442
post #337

" Higher education is often described as an investment. But it’s still unclear if it pays off in happiness. " Nothing, nothing will guarantee happiness. Or a good life. Make the best decisions you can, by which I mean try to make decisions that you will not regret later. (Have I made a crap-ton of mistakes in my life? Sure 'nuff. Would I make different decisions if I could, even knowing what I know now? Probably not.…

> Make the best decisions you can, by which I mean try to make decisions that you will not regret later. (Have I made a crap-ton of mistakes in my life? Sure 'nuff. Would I make different decisions if I could, even knowing what I know now? Probably not.) I can't agree with this enough, and it's a very powerful mindset. As a personal example, there was some point in my mid/late 20s where how I made decisions changed.…

When you are young, you have a lot of options that you will almost certainly regret later, when you realize that they have closed off other options.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#443
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need to go to a music conservatory to be a musician. And among the musicians with the highest net worth, few have formal training. Take for example, Metallica. To my knowledge, none of them have formal training, yet each member has a net worth of hundreds of millions of dollars.

Yes, but the vast majority of musicians do have formal coaching and training. A net worth is not an indication of musical talent and should not be used as one.

This article is about P(good life|college degree)

Global popularity and net worth is not everything, but you could say that is "a good life", in the context of this discussion.

If we restrict this only to artists, a degree doesn't guarantee a base level of popularity or base income.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#444

" Higher education is often described as an investment. But it’s still unclear if it pays off in happiness. " Nothing, nothing will guarantee happiness. Or a good life. Make the best decisions you can, by which I mean try to make decisions that you will not regret later. (Have I made a crap-ton of mistakes in my life? Sure 'nuff. Would I make different decisions if I could, even knowing what I know now? Probably not.…

> Make the best decisions you can, by which I mean try to make decisions that you will not regret later. This can be hard as a young adult, when everyone in a position of authority is telling you your entire childhood that not getting a degree means you're a failure. It's kind of a lot to ask of 18 year olds to truly be able to weight the significance of a student loan for example.

Student loans make it more complex, but I know a lot of older people who regret not going to college, both because of the opportunities they didn't have later in life (my mother, for example) and because of things they were interested in but never had a chance to learn (a retired friend who would have loved chemistry).

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most underrated questions, despite how often it is asked, and it's a shame how many truly flip answers it gets whenever someone asks it.

Wealthier parents will buy homes there and donate/invest in local schools, which will afford a better education to their kids that, along with better networking, will increase the chances of being financially successful of their kids.

I think that's a terrible answer, sorry, and is pretty much what I mean. I somewhat agree with Taleb that wealth begets education, not the other way around. The special thing about good school districts is not the schools themselves, and the special thing about schools is not necessarily their budget: Some of the worst performing schools have the highest budgets.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#446
post #339

I have been reading through the comments and I am very curious about a few things - 1. What "bullshit" degrees people are talking about? Are they the liberal arts studies? If so, as a society do we not see value in the fine arts? Expertise in music, language, anthropology, history, etc do not necessarily lead to a well-paying job.. but they give intellectually satisfaction in and of itself. 2. IMHO, the pay you are l…

The arts (orchestra/symphony, opera/musicals, etc) are a luxury good. There is a small, niche market for these things, mostly centered around certain cities - so we can only have so many artists. The mass arts that the masses can afford to consume (TV, streaming music, and movies) are by definition based on popularity, so we can only have so many artists. I don't know why we fund so many people's arts degrees. We nee…

Every small town has a church with a choir, that's as much arts as a downtown orchestra.

Most have a theatre nearby too.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#447
post #339

I have been reading through the comments and I am very curious about a few things - 1. What "bullshit" degrees people are talking about? Are they the liberal arts studies? If so, as a society do we not see value in the fine arts? Expertise in music, language, anthropology, history, etc do not necessarily lead to a well-paying job.. but they give intellectually satisfaction in and of itself. 2. IMHO, the pay you are l…

When did liberal arts become fine arts? Not that the examples you give are wrong, but they're not fine arts.

When someone doesn't get a liberal arts education, I suppose.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#448
post #339

I have been reading through the comments and I am very curious about a few things - 1. What "bullshit" degrees people are talking about? Are they the liberal arts studies? If so, as a society do we not see value in the fine arts? Expertise in music, language, anthropology, history, etc do not necessarily lead to a well-paying job.. but they give intellectually satisfaction in and of itself. 2. IMHO, the pay you are l…

> Most of the "golden age of civilizations" had this property I don't know what civilizations you're talking about, but the vast, vast majority of humans in the past were busy working in the fields to avoid starvation. The classical fine artists were wealthy or had wealthy patrons.

Not true. They worked a bit to avoid starvation, and hung around resting a lot.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to get into a university in the UK. It is quite hard to get into a 'top' university, and Oxbridge typically requires a fair bit of luck in addition to being very hard. There are pretty decent apprenticeships, but only so many people want to work trades regardless. It's not exactly a ticket to wealth or status like a degree might still be perceived.

From an American perspective, it seems extremely easy to get into a 'top' UK university. Oxford and Cambridge admit around 20% of applicants. Compared to Princeton (6%), Stanford (4%), MIT (7%), etc. it seems like a cakewalk. Is there something I'm missing?

Yes, Oxbridge are not the only excellent universities in the UK. The Russell Group is a piss take, Queens University Belfast and whatever the Welsh representative is are not world class but the LSE and Imperial are, among others.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#450
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe in this over-simplification. However, the point about going to debt for those degrees is a question specific to US at this point in time. We should talk about free college education or heavily subsidized one, but this same group here has been heavily against these ideas because they are socialist. However, happiest countries in the world seems to be mostly social democratic[1] and for one, if possibl…

> We should talk about free college education or heavily subsidized one It already exists. It's called the internet. You can learn almost everything you need, and in much greater detail, than a traditional 'higher education' offered by a brick and mortar institution. The problem is only convincing the gate keepers.

That is simply untrue. You cant learn, for example, advanced cryptography outside a classroom.
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