Earlier quoted context omitted.
Users accept the app store EULA, which serves as a contract, and in which Apple states it can shut down content according to any standards they desire. That means users are fine with Apple removing podcast apps that talk about whatever Apple doesn't like. If you believe otherwise, you believe that users don't understand the nature of contracts and can't decide on what's better for themselves. On the other hand, are y…
EULAs are not legally enforceable, nor are they legally binding. Clickthrough EULAs are absolutely contracts that users neither understand nor deign to read, and to claim otherwise is to hide behind the threat of the government monopoly on force imposed by legal action.
The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
441–450 of 600 posts
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are making the case for the app store to exist, not for it to have no competitors. Let's suppose that Apple's store is infallible. Well then the availability of other stores won't matter, will it? Apple will approve everything good and reject everything bad and you'll know that anything not in their store is bad and have no reason to ever look at another store even if they exist. But suppose they're not infallibl…
I don't see this playing out on Android where other stores exist. And lets take this to the brick and mortar model. 30 ish% of the end user price is not a lot, when many products are at least 100% markup. But first, we know the App store isn't infallible, but it has an incentive to have more false negatives than positives. It is able to correct past mistakes and does do so. But as far as competitive pressure, that ar…
How do you mean? The Play Store and the App Store both have malware:
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-app-store-malware-click-fr...
But the Play Store is a lot less likely to reject things it shouldn't, it doesn't try to extract a percentage of third party revenue from services like Spotify or Netflix, and there are useful and trustworthy third party stores like F-Droid. It's better.
> And lets take this to the brick and mortar model. 30 ish% of the end user price is not a lot, when many products are at least 100% markup.
Brick and mortar stores have expenses for in-town real estate and sales clerks that Apple doesn't, which is where that margin goes. It's unavoidable for that sales model, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing -- and it's the exact reason why online retailers like Amazon have been kicking their butts by cutting that margin down. And even they still have significant warehousing and shipping expenses for physical products that the digital products Apple distributes don't.
Margins like that are costs to be eliminated where possible, not excuses to impose the same costs where they don't otherwise even exist.
> It is able to correct past mistakes and does do so.
Right, so can you point me to the best BitTorrent app in Apple's store?
> But as far as competitive pressure, that argument is mute as long as there is no way for the "normal" owner/user of a device to evaluate the market.
If this were true then it wouldn't do you any good because then people would have no way to know not to buy an Android phone and enable a shady Russian app store full of malware. Fortunately it isn't (and people doing that is quite uncommon), because we have all the normal mechanisms to determine whether a store is trustworthy -- the reputation of the store operator, third party reviews, opinions from savvy relatives or your company's IT staff etc. And the store itself is still curated by the operator, so you only have to do this for the store operator when enabling one, not every individual app. And you would still have the option to use none but Apple's, if you like.
> The other side is that one only has to look at the Play store to see that there are so many copies of original apps that it is obfuscating them. One cannot find the legitimate app.
So the Play Store doesn't always do a great job. This is a pretty good argument that the level of competition there is pretty weak too -- other stores exist but not many people use them. Still, what stops Apple from doing better than that, competition or not? There is no consumer demand or competitive pressure to approve duplicate garbage apps that nobody actually wants, and Google only does it out of laziness.
> So until most people are able to be informed and evaluate the apps, it isn't in their favor to want alternative stores.
They still wouldn't be evaluating the other apps, only the other stores. It might be reasonable to consider F-Droid (and therefore the apps it distributes) trustworthy but not some store nobody has ever heard of operated by anonymous second world foreign nationals.
> Also, one has a choice, buy or don't buy the device.
That isn't a choice, it's more than one choice, anti-competitively required to be made together. I could want to use iOS on Apple hardware but install an app which is only in the Play Store, and that choice doesn't currently exist.
> Also, you can side load any softare you want. It's a service that is paid for , but for free it's 7 days per install.
This is obviously not a viable alternative or your entire premise would disintegrate because it would be a vector for malware, and then what's the point of excluding other app stores?
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's just that Apple aren't going to spend their time and money developing software to let you do things they aren't interested in. Why should they? They are spending time and money to prevent that. Or you can create an app store as an app and expect Apple to allow your "app store app" to ship in iPhones? The features are already there in the OS, they use them themselves. They dont need to do anything more.. but in…
> And that was the reason countries and laws exists. I disagree I don't think the reason why have countries and laws is so that you can force someone else to support your product when they don't want to.
Imagine if windows crippled Netscape by forcing them to use Internet Explorer engine on Windows?
And this is just one thing Apple are doing that is unbelievable they are getting away with it.
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given that (a) no smartphone exists that is a perfect fit for my ideal requirements and (b) having some smartphone is now almost essential to function normally within society I would say yes, I absolutely do want the government to intervene. Market competition is obviously not doing the job, and none of us individually is strong enough to force the issue with the suppliers. That is exactly the situation where regulat…
Sure let the same idiots who put on the dog and pony show with tech CEOs design the SilhouettePhone just for you....
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I absolutely do want the government to intervene Well I don't know what to say apart from this is incredibly selfish. You can't find a product suited to your particular esoteric requirements so you want the government to force someone else to perform labour to build the product you want. Can you see how wacky that sounds when you write it out like that?
By that argument, all consumer protection laws should be abolished. Clearly I don't agree with that position. I don't think it's selfish to argue that government should protect the little guy from being exploited by the big guy who has much greater power, for each of the numerous little guys affected by a situation. Indeed, that is arguably one of the most important functions of any government. I would have less of a…
But you can already access these Government services - the apps already work, right? You don't need a third-party-app-store to use them?
So that isn't a reason to change anything.
You want the iPhone to be changed so you can do other things with the iPhone, unrelated to these Government services.
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't that prove the point that competitive app stores would not harm Apple's business? It seems paternalistic to suggest that consumers are too dumb to make an App Store decision on their own.
It also proves the point that consumers don’t care.... We have decades of viruses, malware, ransomware, and toolbars on Windows PCs that prove that the average consumer isn’t that technologically savvy. I’m not saying Macs are immune in anyway to the same exploits. It’s just that not enough people care to create malware on the Mac to make it that big of a deal.
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#447I am a big Apple fan, but seriously, you guys are bending yourselves into pretzels to make up excuses for Apple. we already know what a market without a mandatory App Store looks like because it is like that for the Mac. I still prefer buying apps through Apple’s store. Due to safety, ease of use etc. But I am happy alternatives exist when I need them. They could follow a similar model for iPhone where non-Apple stor…
An F-Droid equivalent for iOS would be awesome.
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, because I want to be continue to recommend Apple products to friends and family who would definitely be scammed by fake payment mechanisms if Apple wasn’t preventing it.
How do you feel about them removing an app because it allows people from HK to circumvent censorship? And why? Just asking to understand your point of view on the article.
I agree that there is a problem with them not allowing different descriptions in different countries, and I agree that they should add this feature to the store.
I wouldn’t have a problem with this being litigated on its own merits. I can see potential legal arguments.
I don’t see what this has to do with antitrust or the rest of the claims, which just seem like a tortured way to introduce an ethical dimension to the argument.
No proposed antitrust remedy has anything to do with challenging authoritarian regimens. If anything the remedies would make the situation worse.
One obvious pathological outcome is that if Apple is forced to create infrastructure to allow multiple stores, every authoritarian state will trivially mandate the installation of a state run store app, with all manner of tracking, privacy abuses, etc., even the ones which had previously had no leverage over Apple.
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you name one category of app that Apple sells where there aren’t competitors on the App Store?
Literally being debated right now. https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/29/apple-ceo-tim-cook-questio...
Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what the laws are in Europe, but in the US, there's nothing inherently illegal about being a monopoly. The illegality begins when one tries using the monopoly to gain an edge in other markets. Arguably, Apple has monopoly power in the market they built so nothing wrong there. If you're trying to make the argument that maybe we should change the laws to make monopolies illegal, it would be easier to discu…
I think we fundamentally disagree about Apple's behavior. > Arguably, Apple has monopoly power in the market they built so nothing wrong there. Apple embraced the web and the internet, then extinguished it as a means of getting software to consumers. > Online marketplaces tend to be global marketplaces with very high barriers to entry. This is false. The web is a free for all. A better analogy for iPhone and Android…
Not sure why this is relevant to EU regulation.
> This is false. The web is a free for all.
Somewhat. The web is a free for all and is part of the high barrier to entry for online marketplaces. I probably should qualify that as a serious online marketplace for third parties.
> Can you imagine having to pay to run your code and your commerce on CPUs?
Sure can. It was called the 90's. I remember paying per cpu/per end user licensing fees to run things on my own cpus.
> Phones should be utilities.
As an opinion, I can't really argue this.
> Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Whole Foods, Kroger, REI, Dick's, CVS, Dollar Tree, Dollar General,
These are great examples that continue to make my point. * almost all have private brands that compete brands they sell * many allow stores in their stores (which they charge for) * they collect data on those stores (within their stores)
BTW, my intent is not to convince you. I normally wouldn't have responded at all, but since you seemed genuinely curious why you weren't seeing responses so I thought I would give you my perspective.