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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#431

Post by Apocryphon »

wlesieutre wrote: post #407
Silhouette wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the convenience of not having 8 different game updater/launcher clients Obligatory glance over at Steam goes here. Apple’s App Store policies also limit 3rd party software’s ability to fuck up my devices in a myriad of ways. It would be a much safer solution if Apple's operating system limited 3rd party software's ability to do things it shouldn't. Trying to filter malware at the app store level might improve your od…

> Obligatory glance over at Steam goes here. • Steam (Valve) • Uplay (Ubisoft) • Origin (EA) • Epic (Epic) • Galaxy (CDProjekt) • LoL Launcher (Riot) • Battle.net (Blizzard) • Twitch (Amazon) • Minecraft Launcher (Mojang) Probably others I'm missing. Can't wait to have a whole home screen dedicated to different app stores because each one has a single exclusive game that I wanted to play

That's already the case with chat clients, or social media, and many other categories of app. Such is the price of competition and variety.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#432

Post by perl4ever »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #307

I am a big Apple fan, but seriously, you guys are bending yourselves into pretzels to make up excuses for Apple. we already know what a market without a mandatory App Store looks like because it is like that for the Mac. I still prefer buying apps through Apple’s store. Due to safety, ease of use etc. But I am happy alternatives exist when I need them. They could follow a similar model for iPhone where non-Apple stor…

My excuse for Apple is that I use Android. The word "monopoly" means nothing any more.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#433

Post by drivingmenuts »

skuthus wrote: post #94
drivingmenuts wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s be precise here. You want to be able to choose. If you can force thru a change to allow other app stores on an IDevice, and Apple still refuses to follow thru, then you can say you deserve it. Wanting a thing is not the same as deserving it. Choice does not exist until you have options. That said, I’m in favor of opening up other App Stores, so Apple can boot the all crapware and focus on a small number of high…

It's a bit pedantic, but okay. I philosophically believe that we deserve to choose - you are right that the reality is different. I would like to make it the same.

It may seem pedantic, but it’s a useful distinction. ‘Deserves’ implies that you’ll get something without giving up anything. If you want a thing, then you can negotiate for it, each party giving up something to get their desired outcome.

What would you be willing to give up so that Apple would support your desired outcome more?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#434

Post by perl4ever »

umvi wrote: post #311
karpierz wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and if you order food at a restaurant and and want to modify it, don't expect the chef to let you into the kitchen and use their tools to do it.

Precisely! And you would also hope the food doesn't come inside a bullet-proof glass bubble with a robotic arm as the only interface between you and the food to ensure you eat it exactly the way the chef intended. And furthermore you would hope breaking the bullet-proof glass bubble so you can feed yourself and pick out the mushrooms won't cause the chef to send lawyers after you (especially if you teach others how t…

It's normal for restaurants to restrict what you eat and how, even if the food belongs to you. Have you ever tried to bring, say, a cake or a bottle of wine to dinner with you? Some places might just say no outside food or drink, but others will say you have to pay them per slice to cut your own cake, for instance. Or you have to pay them to uncork your wine[1].

So although you're presenting an analogy intended to be absurd, I think it's not far from how the normal non-tech world works, in terms of controlling your experience.

[1]https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/corkage

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#435

Post by Apocryphon »

wlesieutre wrote: post #429
Apocryphon wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then, simply don't run that software. Vote with your wallet. Use a competitor that remains on the App Store. Why deprive others of the choice, in favor of a single entity in charge- a single point of failure? I thought it was a truism in tech that monocultures are a bad thing?

I'm voting with my wallet to have an iPhone where there's no Fortnite Installer instead of Android where there is. Believe it or not I had an Android phone before and decided I like Apple's system better. If it were my only computing device and I needed to run a bittorrent client I acknowledge it would be a problem, but like I said elsewhere in the comments, it's a trade-off.

I agree there's a tradeoff. And that in the scenario where Apple allows alternate app stores, there would also be tradeoffs. But I disagree with your view that it would have to resemble the situation on Android. I feel that the Apple brand and the inherent security features of the iOS environment- which aren't simply the exclusivity of the App Store and the App Store Review process- could lead to secondary stores that are carefully curated and have a higher bar of security than the ones you see on Android. In fact, one could very well imagine companies entering into a new market and providing secure app markets that try to beat Apple at their own game (such as searchability). For one thing, there's more money to be made with iOS apps, and perhaps that could lead to greater investment and higher quality stores.

I view the dismissals of "secondary app markets will just be like insecure shoddy secondary Android app stores" to be both pessimistic and lacking in imagination at the potential for new businesses and innovation to be created if Apple just gives up a little bit of its dominating power.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#436

Post by toyg »

moogleii wrote: post #136

I'm guessing Apple's defense will be very similar to the author's own words, except a little less emotional: > Apple is using its monopoly to hold all of us hostage > Apple’s iOS controls 25% of the global smartphone market (the other 75%, is largely controlled by Google’s Android). This means that for over a billion people (particularly in the US where their market share approaches 50%), the only way to install apps…

25% market share is a misleading statistic. Since iPhones dominate the higher end of the market, where the real money flows, they actually make twice as much money as Google: https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-....

So it’s more like a 70% share, in practice.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#437

Post by Silhouette »

chrisseaton wrote: post #422
Silhouette wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that (a) no smartphone exists that is a perfect fit for my ideal requirements and (b) having some smartphone is now almost essential to function normally within society I would say yes, I absolutely do want the government to intervene. Market competition is obviously not doing the job, and none of us individually is strong enough to force the issue with the suppliers. That is exactly the situation where regulat…

> I absolutely do want the government to intervene Well I don't know what to say apart from this is incredibly selfish. You can't find a product suited to your particular esoteric requirements so you want the government to force someone else to perform labour to build the product you want. Can you see how wacky that sounds when you write it out like that?

By that argument, all consumer protection laws should be abolished. Clearly I don't agree with that position.

I don't think it's selfish to argue that government should protect the little guy from being exploited by the big guy who has much greater power, for each of the numerous little guys affected by a situation. Indeed, that is arguably one of the most important functions of any government.

I would have less of a problem with this if we were discussing some luxury item that people could easily do without. However, the reality is that many organisations -- including government entities at various scales in my country as well as other essential services -- now effectively require the use of certain technologies in order to function as a normal member of society. It is therefore reasonable to ensure that the technologies available are provided on an acceptable basis.

If a supplier doesn't want to play by those rules, they're not forced to perform any labour for me or anyone else here. They're perfectly entitled to simply exit the market instead.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#438

Post by oscargrouch »

falcolas wrote: post #284
oscargrouch wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MacDonalds its not yours, while your iPhone is. There's a big difference between the two, and the key difference here is ... Property. But i like your example because its shows the mindset that the iPhone you bought, is in the end the property of Apple, not really yours, and that you are "fine with it".

Your iPhone OS is not yours. It’s an unfortunate thing, the way that licensing works, but that’s how it is. A more apt analogy is perhaps that you’re a McDonalds franchise owner, and you can’t serve Subway food there.

I think this analogy would work if you think in terms of opening a Apple franchise, and being able to sell only Apple products.

The problem here is a centralized point of control, that basically controls, or can eventually exercise this control to define in the end how you experience your life in the digital realm.

As the subtraction, or whats left out, will happen before, people wont even notice whats being taken from them.

That's why its hard to compare to anything that happened before, because its unparalleled.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#439

Post by nodamage »

627467 wrote: post #418
nodamage wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify is no more entitled to Apple's customers than Nike is entitled to Walmart's customers. If Nike wants to sell shoes in Walmart they will have to accept Walmarts terms, or find another store to sell in.

Walmart customers are not hostages being prevented to buy in other shops. Analogy doesn't hold.

Just like you can choose not to be a Walmart customer, you can also choose not to be an Apple customer.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#440

Post by chipotle_coyote »

scarface74 wrote: post #353
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think this is one of the two points where the case against Apple's App Store model is the strongest. Not allowing applications to use third party in-app purchase systems is weakly defensible, but they not only don't allow that, they not only don't allow you to load an online store in a web view, they not only don't allow you to link to an online store that will open in Safari, the App Store terms literally do n…

Can I advertise in Walmart that they can buy the sane item cheaper from my own website?

I don't think that's a valid comparison in this case. You aren't advertising another place to buy the same item, you are telling people how to buy content for the item they obtained from Apple's App Store that is (a) necessary for the item to work meaningfully and (b) is not sold through Apple's App Store. Are you completely confident that if Walmart, for some reason, sold video game consoles but didn't sell the actual games for the console, they would maintain an iron-clad prohibition against telling their own customers where those games are available?
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