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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#261

Post by defnotashton2 »

spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

You are assuming nothing else can be in place to solve all of those problems. If you and many other consumers want that then services will appear to solve those problems barring regulation and market barriers like a monopolistic app store and platform policies.

PayPal comes to mind.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#263

Post by chrisseaton »

echelon wrote: post #245
chrisseaton wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are only two pocket computers. There are thousands of powerful smartphones on the market, from many different companies and even countries. > It's not okay. I'm okay with it.

> There are thousands of powerful smartphones on the market, from many different companies and even countries. You're being deceptive here. Apple App Store and Google Play Store are what we are talking about. There aren't many other avenues that can reach consumers. > I'm okay with it. You're okay with me having to pay hard earned money to Apple and Google? Having to work that much harder? To be unable to afford to l…

> You're being deceptive here. Apple App Store and Google Play Store are what we are talking about.

I'm using your own words - you said 'pocket computers'.

And you can load your own applications onto Android, can't you? So use that!

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#264

Post by chrisseaton »

bhupy wrote: post #244
chrisseaton wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are only two pocket computers. There are thousands of powerful smartphones on the market, from many different companies and even countries. > It's not okay. I'm okay with it.

> There are thousands of powerful smartphones on the market, from many different companies and even countries. There are only 2 major OS's.

And doesn't one of them allow your own apps? So why don't you use that one if that's what you prefer?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#265

Post by spiderfarmer »

nemothekid wrote: post #248
osrec wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not pro-consumer behaviour. This is pro-Apple behaviour. They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. They're even stifling web apps to maintain this monopoly. If they were so pro-consumer, why do they allow spyware such as Tiktok to exist on their platform at all?

> They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. That only affects the developer, not the consumer. What does the consumer care about who gets paid the fees. I keep seeing the App Store framed as a consumer issue rather than a developer one when it's not. The App Store is no question pro-consumer especially when you consider the fact that the "open" web has essentially devolved into using every available…

If Apple decided to implement the Push Notification API for Mobile Safari, it would be very beneficial to the users of my forum websites. Now I’m forced to build an app, while my forums users are all happy with the website as it is. They just want push notifications and I’m convinced Apple is holding that back on purpose. I bet there are internal emails about that issue as well.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#266

Post by beached_whale »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

Most people are naive about how applications will coerce them into doing things against their best interest when given the ability, such as a request while installing, requesting access to parts of the system that reveal PII. Most people do not have the knowledge to evaluate how these things play out. Apple via the app store at least does some work to mitigate this and when they do fail, are able to fix it.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#267

Post by chrisseaton »

oscargrouch wrote: post #247
chrisseaton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do whatever you want with your device. Use it as a hammer for all Apple care. It's just that Apple aren't going to spend their time and money developing software to let you do things they aren't interested in. Why should they?

> It's just that Apple aren't going to spend their time and money developing software to let you do things they aren't interested in. Why should they? They are spending time and money to prevent that. Or you can create an app store as an app and expect Apple to allow your "app store app" to ship in iPhones? The features are already there in the OS, they use them themselves. They dont need to do anything more.. but in…

> And that was the reason countries and laws exists.

I disagree I don't think the reason why have countries and laws is so that you can force someone else to support your product when they don't want to.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#268

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

spullara wrote: post #258
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but Apple would still have an edge on tight integration with the OS resulting in a quick and frictionless user experience. If that wouldn't cut it for some developers, so they would bother themselves building a separate processing, well, then Apple would probably have to lower their fees. Personally for me, as a developer of applications, I could care less about 30% fee. I find it reasonable. What I DO care…

Anyone can get a developer license and run whatever stupid apps they want. That seems like sufficient opt-in that you are likely competent to assess the risk of the apps you're installing.

So you are suggesting users in China apply for a developer license and build their own build of Signal and Protonmail apps? Really?

And how would said users receive push notifications for their apps from Signal?

UPD: oh boy, and I forgot to mention that such users would also have to buy Macs - you can't build a 'stupid app' for iOS without XCode, which runs only on Macs that support the latest version of macOS.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#269

Post by beached_whale »

spullara wrote: post #258
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but Apple would still have an edge on tight integration with the OS resulting in a quick and frictionless user experience. If that wouldn't cut it for some developers, so they would bother themselves building a separate processing, well, then Apple would probably have to lower their fees. Personally for me, as a developer of applications, I could care less about 30% fee. I find it reasonable. What I DO care…

Anyone can get a developer license and run whatever stupid apps they want. That seems like sufficient opt-in that you are likely competent to assess the risk of the apps you're installing.

That might be the fix, remove the 7 day limit and also lock it as a setting with dire warnings.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#270

Post by moogleii »

echelon wrote: post #169
xvector wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a monopoly, Apple is a minority player in the mobile device space. If you don't want to use an Apple device no one is making you. It will not impact your daily life in any meaningful way whatsoever. > I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy be restricted by their shiny digital handcuffs. I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so hap…

> I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy let governments force private entities to do anything they want under the thinly-veiled guise of antitrust. I don't want Apple and Google taking 30% of my profit. How hard is it as a startup to yield that much of your profit margin for such a stupid reason? We regressed hard core since the 90s. Distribution was free. The web platform…

Depends on what you're comparing against. With the web, as much as I enjoyed those days, your take seems a bit rose-tinted. Generally, finding official binaries wasn't too bad. "This website looks official" was the bar. But that was a crazy low bar then, and even worse today. It's essentially "the domain looks correct and the design looks polished". For some of the more obscure binaries, I recall downloading from the "wrong" sites a handful of times. Rare, but it happened. When I watched my parents use a computer then, there was no check of what was legit, because why wouldn't it be legit?

Comparing against consoles like Nintendo, Sega, and Xbox back then, it was definitely an improvement. No NDAs, no exorbitant upfront costs for dev hardware, no massive take by your publisher. 30% was not much compared to all that, where it likely would have been the other way around (you get 30 [if that], "they" get 70). Today, it does feel steep, and could use another realignment, but "the good old days" weren't exactly that.

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