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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#231

Post by chrisseaton »

krzyk wrote: post #226
chrisseaton wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like complaining that it's unfair that only McDonald's are allowed to sell inside a McDonald's.

More appropriate analogy: Let say Apple is BMW, and when you buy BMW your gas tank has a proprietary connector that will work only on BP gas stations. You can choose different gas there (different octane number, etc.), but you can't tank at e.g. Statoil.

As long as this is disclosed to the customer up-front and as long as you can buy a different car to a BMW, then I do not have any moral objection to this.

I admit I probably wouldn't buy such a car myself as I don't see any advantages. I do see advantages to the Apple model - simplicity and cleanliness. If you disagree then you should probably do as I would with the BMW - buy something else instead.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#232

Post by julietteeb »

I'm a iOS tweak developer and the way the App Store is ran is fantastic as it prevents people like me from posting our tweaks to the main store as in my opinion a regular person shouldn't be installing tweaks or jailbreaking their device as if they install a bad tweak or fuck up their device they should know how to navigate the command line to fix it. Jailbreaking is cool but if you don't know what you are doing you shouldn't do it.

There are plenty of 3rd party app stores for the iPhone/iPad that anyone can access with out jailbreaking, Ignition (https://ignition.fun), TuTuApp (https://tutuapp-app.org), TweakBox (https://www.tweakboxapp.com), I'm probably missing more but they do exist. But they're sketchy and ad filled. They do how ever allow anyone to install semi-untethered jailbreaking software like Unc0ver and Electra.

That being said Apple taking 30% cut in revenue is way too much in my view and the way it's set up could be better.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#233

Post by nemothekid »

osrec wrote: post #154
threeseed wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you consider TikTok to be spyware then you would need to also block Google, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn etc. Instead Apple had implemented the most stringent, pro-privacy features and polices on any platform bar none.

Sorry, what?! Tiktok grabs your IMEI number, amongst numerous other things and sends them back to the mother ship. Not saying that other platforms don't collect data, but Tiktok is known for being a whole other level spyware. If Apple was truly trying to protect consumers, there's no way it would allow it.

>but Tiktok is known for being a whole other level spyware.

Somehow grabbing your IMEI is "whole other level of spyware" than Facebook, who had an app that was analyzing all the traffic sent through your phone.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#234

Post by oscargrouch »

chrisseaton wrote: post #222
mathnovice wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a Mcdonalds restaurant (which McDonalds owns) in any way equivalent to my iPhone (which I supposedly own).

If you go to a a McDonalds and get upset that you can't buy Pepsi, you're unreasonable. If you buy an iPhone and get upset that you can't install your own apps, you're unreasonable.

The MacDonalds its not yours, while your iPhone is.

There's a big difference between the two, and the key difference here is ... Property.

But i like your example because its shows the mindset that the iPhone you bought, is in the end the property of Apple, not really yours, and that you are "fine with it".

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#235

Post by chrisseaton »

oscargrouch wrote: post #234
chrisseaton wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go to a a McDonalds and get upset that you can't buy Pepsi, you're unreasonable. If you buy an iPhone and get upset that you can't install your own apps, you're unreasonable.

The MacDonalds its not yours, while your iPhone is. There's a big difference between the two, and the key difference here is ... Property. But i like your example because its shows the mindset that the iPhone you bought, is in the end the property of Apple, not really yours, and that you are "fine with it".

You can do already do whatever you want with your phone from the point you receive it in the condition Apple sell it to you.

But you cannot require that Apple do work to build support for third-party app stores. Property rights do not extend to forcing other people to do labour for you.

If your phone doesn't come with support for third-party stores when you buy it then I don't see how it would be your right to have that feature added.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#236

Post by Google234 »

gramakri wrote: post #168
scarface74 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Apple didn’t force you to buy the phone....

Isn't this an argument against any company/monopoly? No company forced anyone to buy anything.

Mono means one btw

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#237

Post by nodamage »

I am not sure why people continue to redefine the word "monopoly" to the point where it becomes meaningless.

Claiming that Apple has a "monopoly" on app sales on its own devices might be technically true but is not a meaningful statement when there are plenty of alternatives to Apple devices on the market.

It is about as meaningful as claiming a gas station has a "monopoly" on gas sales in a three block radius, or that a bar has a "monopoly" on cocktail sales in its own building, or that I have a "monopoly" on lemonade sales on my front lawn.

If you have to apply an arbitrary constraint to eliminate the consideration of meaningful alternatives that the consumer has access to, then you're not dealing with an actual monopoly.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#238

Post by habitue »

DenisM wrote: post #118

The local cinema has an exclusive right on selling popcorn within its own walls. Far from being the only game in town, this cinema represents only 25% of the market and thus does not qualify for the Sherman Act definition of "monopoly". Punters, however, believe that once they enter the establishment they are now in the clutches of the monopoly, and so demand competing popcorn stands and reject the suggestion of walk…

This is not really an apt comparison because the commitment to a movie theater is pretty minimal. If you spend $1000 on a phone, you're stuck there for a while. Most of these issues don't become immediately obvious right when you buy the phone either, it's things that might take you a few years to realize are happening (if ever).

Additionally, the network/ecosystem effects might make it such that you are really disincentivized to switch.

- For a lot of people, the idea that they would show up as a "green bubble" means they will never consider moving off of Apple - If you've purchased a lot of apps that you will now lose, you're not going to just move off of Apple

If you don't like a movie theater chain, you just go to another one, or don't go to the movies. Not having a phone isn't a realistic option for most people, and neither is switching (this applies in the Google -> Apple direction as well).

People are very narrowly focused on whether Apple (or Google) are monopolies, and the fact is that you can have very imperfect competition[1] in a market that can seriously harm consumers, without anyone being a monopoly.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperfect_competition

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#239

Post by CubsFan1060 »

wayneftw wrote: post #138
CubsFan1060 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, if you didn't like the way it is, why did you buy one? None of these things are new. They've basically been the same since they came out. You largely had a choice of two products. It sounds like one did what you wanted, and one didn't. You bought the one that didn't and now you're unhappy about it. I don't quite understand that.

It doesn’t matter why I bought one. Car manufactures can’t just do whatever they want. They have to follow rules. What’s wrong with people wanting Apple and Google to follow some rules? Having a rule that all smartphones should allow sideloading would not be the end of the world for people who like Apple’s app store. Those people would still have the choice to us it.

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I just truly don't understand it. It kinda feels like the people that move close to an airport and then complain about air traffic. You knew the deal going in, but you went in anyway. And now you're upset about the choice you made.

So what I'm really curious about is why is that? Regardless of the legality beyond it, why did you make a choice you're upset with?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#240

Post by sneak »

spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

There is spyware (that is, malware) in almost every single app in the Apple App Store. Apple asserts that you consent to spyware in your apps when you agree to the App Store TOS.

These apps track your location (both sensor and geoip based) over time, and aggregate and sell that data, along with other user data they glean.

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