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Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

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Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#311

Post by JAlexoid »

ilamont wrote: post #31

> Ek claimed that a "narrative fallacy" had been created and caused music fans to believe that Spotify doesn't pay musicians enough for streams of their music. Fallacy? Scores of well-known musicians, from Bette Midler to Taylor Swift, have talked about how little they make through Spotify and other streaming platforms. IIRC Swift only joined the platform after cutting a special deal. Not everyone can do this. Quotin…

> Taylor Swift

She wanted a lot of money, just like in the good old record label days. And BTW - her deal screwed indie bands even more...

> Joni Mitchell

Who TF is this person?

> only those artists who are willing to jump through Spotify's algorithmically generated hoops

Since when is general audience and human attention span a result of Spotify's engineering? Do you think that Taylor Swift doesn't have people earning 6 figures to make sure that she stays relevant?

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#312

Post by yxhuvud »

pier25 wrote: post #135
52-6F-62 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s especially funny about your example is Hemingway wrote for periodicals as a day job for a long time, and so he kept that kind of schedule. Except some of his books came about because he didn’t keep to that schedule, and we don’t usually talk about Hemingway for his articles in the Toronto Star.

Ok, the metaphor doesn't really work for writers because the effort you put into an article or blog post is not comparable to a song. But anyway my point was more about producing significant and valuable work.

The trend in self published novels is also towards putting out series of cheap and relatively bite sized books coming out in a tight schedule.

Many of these are.. not so good. A few are great.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#313

Post by jedimastert »

jp57 wrote: post #256

I'm not sure why this is controversial. In the vinyl era, when a single LP was about 40 minutes long, it was pretty normal for artists to release roughly an album a year. (e.g. Led Zeppelin's eight studio albums were released over a span of 10.5 years, but one was a double album and they took a long break when Robert Plant's son died. The first 7 albums were released over 7 years). It seems like it was only when albu…

The idea behind creating an album, a collection of songs behind a theme or era of your creative life, lets you tell more of a story in a cohesive way. It lets you create more interconnected works, rather than one idea per song.

Also, it lets you take breaks and lets things breathe. It's really hard to take a song from creation to recording to mastering to releasing without giving yourself a break in the meantime.

Also also, batching out writing, recording, and post-prod makes it go much faster as well

In short, it's far far easier to make 12 songs in a year than one song in a month, and you'll get a much better product out of it.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#314

Post by xwdv »

alchemyromcom wrote: post #139

I wish more people, especially tech CEOs, could understand the incredible sacrifice of time, money, and energy it takes to make an album people actually enjoy. Everything you listen to, unless you are willing to listen to raw demos, is a miracle. I've worked both as a sound engineer and and a software developer. It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. The way tech com…

> Have some appreciation--even awe--for the art you enjoy.

Haha, no.

Artists aren’t some gift from God here to bestow the world with joy from the heavens that we should all marvel at.

They are people who chose to learn a skill capable of outputting something suitable for consumption as entertainment.

As such, it is their job to be putting out these works regularly, just like everyone else.

Appreciation is nice, but doesn’t matter. Everyday people do mundane things that you have no idea how to do and probably go unappreciated, yet they are more necessary than any sort of “art”. Take art down from the pedestal please.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#315

Post by jedimastert »

JAlexoid wrote: post #236
rdiddly wrote: post #224

"The artists today that are making it realize that it’s about creating a continuous engagement with their fans. It is about putting the work in, about the storytelling around the album, and about keeping a continuous dialogue with your fans." Translation: We don't have a marketing department to handle this royal pain-in-the-ass for you, like a record company would've in the old days. Selling stuff still requires mark…

> I guess you don't belong in the new future landscape There's really nothing unusual in bands losing fans and appeal. If you don't want to change and loose fans - that's your choice. This isn't even new. Many artists had to recreate themselves to stay relevant or just retire. Now - you have much cheaper and much more direct means of engaging with your audience. If you decide to ignore this - then you probably will n…

> There's really nothing unusual in bands losing fans and appeal. If you don't want to change and loose fans - that's your choice. This isn't even new. Many artists had to recreate themselves to stay relevant or just retire.

Pretty hard to lose fans you don't have...and it's really REALLY hard to get fans

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#316

Post by throwaway894345 »

alchemyromcom wrote: post #139

I wish more people, especially tech CEOs, could understand the incredible sacrifice of time, money, and energy it takes to make an album people actually enjoy. Everything you listen to, unless you are willing to listen to raw demos, is a miracle. I've worked both as a sound engineer and and a software developer. It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. The way tech com…

> I got into software to pay the bills, but the way geeks talk about the industry and people I love drives me right up the wall. Have some appreciation--even awe--for the art you enjoy.

I probably agree with you about your broader sentiment of the commodification of music for the principal benefit of tech investors is not in the interest of society as a whole; however, I don't think your bit about software/geeks served to support your point. Some people appreciate software the way you appreciate music, and perhaps they appreciate music as a sort of commodity. People have different preferences, but sometimes that creates an economic environment that isn't optimal for your own preferences.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#317

Post by adamsmith »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #212
alchemyromcom wrote: post #139

I wish more people, especially tech CEOs, could understand the incredible sacrifice of time, money, and energy it takes to make an album people actually enjoy. Everything you listen to, unless you are willing to listen to raw demos, is a miracle. I've worked both as a sound engineer and and a software developer. It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. The way tech com…

> It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. True, but hardly apples-to-apples; it's orders of magnitude easier to make music than it is to make a viral app. In either case, the barrier to entry is low, the standard for doing it professionally is surprisingly high, and making a hit is a huge undertaking.

Yes, there are orders of magnitude of scale in both fields.

In software it can cost $10k to build an app but Google Search costs $10^10: a six orders of magnitude difference.

In music there’s got to be a big dynamic range in effort involved as well. (I doubt it’s 10^6 though!)

But comparing the best music to the lowest end app is apples to oranges.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#318

Post by n0on3 »

I wish as a species we were smart enough not to turn everything good we did or could do into shit in the name of profit by building models that just churn more. TBH, reading "what is required [by music artists][...] is creating a continuous engagement with their fans" my arms fell off to the ground. Seriously, now the requirement for a form of art is engaging with fans? Well thanks Spotify for the nails to seal the coffin of good music I guess.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#319

Post by shakezula »

mortivore wrote: post #293
shakezula wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the "new music sucks" argument. I've definitely never heard this one before. Please tell me how Metallica is relevant right now.

People still listen to Metallica's music, and their music still ends up in movies. I don't really think all new music is bad, just most of it. The same could be said for back in the day though. Metallica is a bad example for you to use cause they are still widespread because they are really good. There are other bands you haven't heard of from the 70s and 80s.

I like Metallica just as much as the next guy, but they're not relevant anymore. They've been laughed out of the music industry ever since they got upset about their music being pirated - which is actually a great example of how the music industry has changed and left them in the dust. Do they still sell records? Sure. But that's not what I'm talking about. Would I listen to their opinions on modern music industry trends? Absolutely not.

Of course there are bands I haven't heard of from the 70s and 80s. That doesn't mean the ones I have heard of are relevant. It means they're memorable.

unrelated but I love your username.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#320

Post by JAlexoid »

Dahoon wrote: post #295
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. True, but hardly apples-to-apples; it's orders of magnitude easier to make music than it is to make a viral app. In either case, the barrier to entry is low, the standard for doing it professionally is surprisingly high, and making a hit is a huge undertaking.

As a musician and programmer I find the bar to make money on apps way way lower than on music. Being a good programmer brings you much closer to making money on an app than being a good musician does to get a record out. For one you don't need luck, money and the right contacts to release an app. It isn't even in the same ballpark IMHO. Pro musician is closer to "race driver" than "viral app creator".

20 years ago you needed all of the same stuff in software engineering, as you described in music.

Things change... It costs as much to "release an app" as to "get a record out" today.

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