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A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

theatlantic.com

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Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#211
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually 2+ years of experience in a certain field.

How do you get enough experience for employers in said field to take a chance on you? It's all about getting over that initial hurdle of 100% unexperienced.

Usually by being willing to work for peanuts for a really low budget place.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#212
post #145
post #4

Most successful people have X. Government: “Let’s give everyone X!” Over time the value of X is diluted, loses its status signaling, and overall quality degrades. Successful people move to Y.

There are some things that does make everyone more successful. More education is overall better for society, even if it's no longer a guarantee of "success." Some things don't really get diluted but can enrich the lives of anyone they are involved in (if we disassociate the word "success" from a comparative cycle). For example, healthcare, books, digital entertainment, internet connectivity. The comparative advantage…

> More education is overall better for society, even if it's no longer a guarantee of "success."

Perhaps, but you shouldn't make the mistake of equating schooling and education.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching yourself new skills using the Internet.

People always parrot this but how many Doctors do you know with no degree? Take a poll at Google engineers and see how many are actually self taught and have no degree. How many Wall Street bankers/traders/etc have no degree? How many US Senators have no degree? How many World Leaders in history have had no formal education? Not counting dropouts, what percentage of Billionaires have no college education? The reality…

> You can argue what the root of this is whether it's the added knowledge or signalling of the degree, or intrinsic self motivation of the person, etc. but that fact still remains.

More discussion on "the root of this" might lead to the above changing.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#215
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good ZIP code is a great start. https://talkpoverty.org/2015/12/17/american-dream-zip-codes-...

What made those zip codes good?

This is one of the most underrated questions, despite how often it is asked, and it's a shame how many truly flip answers it gets whenever someone asks it.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people I know actually have careers directly related to their undergrad majors. I majored in Creative Writing and interdisciplinary (politics, philosophy, and economics) studies. Currently working as an applied AI researcher and about to go back to get my phd in AI as well. There are many paths to take. Often being different helps you stand out. Having a humanities and social science background is just as im…

"Currently working as an applied AI researcher and about to go back to get my phd in AI as well" : You're probably in the top 2% of intelligence, that's a huge advantage over most everyone else. People who are closer to the average may need to take more conventional paths to succeed.

There is no shortage of liberal arts majors who went to coding bootcamps and are now working as software developers, even if only a minority of them are in something as cutting-edge as AI research.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#217

I barely skimmed the article, but I don't find this surprising for a few reasons (some of which have been mentioned elsewhere in the comments): - "University degree" is a heterogeneous thing. While there is such thing as non-economic value, the strictly economic value of a college education tends to cluster around a small subset of degrees. - Many countries have enacted policies to increase proportion of people who g…

Would you mind elaborating on your experiences in France and England? I'm curious about the situation there. I was under the impression that there are many effective non-college options in those countries (England's pretty robust apprenticeship system comes to mind), and that university is generally both hard to get into and relatively cheap to complete. I also haven't lived in either France or England, so I speak from a place of little knowledge.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#218
post #4

Most successful people have X. Government: “Let’s give everyone X!” Over time the value of X is diluted, loses its status signaling, and overall quality degrades. Successful people move to Y.

Giving everyone some baseline of education, I think, can be considered a good that doesn't need to be further explained. Reading/writing, basic math and science etc. Increasing the baseline to more advanced learning means a more informed general population, and therefore much more likely technical advancement and wealth creation.

It is the people that are seen as going beyond that education baseline that are the elite, and get the best careers and the most success generally (ignoring other factors for the purpose of this conversation). As you increase the baseline, what it takes to be elite also increases accordingly. I think we can all agree that it is inherently true that not everyone can be elite, in the same way that it's impossible for everyone to be above average, which is what I think you're getting at.

I think what this view may fail to consider is that the benefits of the baseline come to resemble what was previously considered elite as overall wealth increases. Middle class people now have larger homes, more vehicles, more luxury etc. than the lower-tier elites (ignoring the billionaire class here) did 100 years ago. That increase of the baseline living standard is tied to, though very much lags, the baseline of education.

Put another way, we can not eliminate the relative gap between the baseline and the elite, but, in absolute terms, as the baseline comes to meet what was previously elite in education the baseline well-being and standards of living also come to meet what was previously elite.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#219

It is if you major in STEM (and you apply yourself and get internships, etc) - Majoring in "Eastern Gender Studies" will likely waste 4 years of your life.

Very few people I know actually have careers directly related to their undergrad majors. I majored in Creative Writing and interdisciplinary (politics, philosophy, and economics) studies. Currently working as an applied AI researcher and about to go back to get my phd in AI as well. There are many paths to take. Often being different helps you stand out. Having a humanities and social science background is just as im…

> Very few people I know actually have careers directly related to their undergrad majors.I majored in Creative Writing and interdisciplinary (politics, philosophy, and economics) studies.

I strongly feel that path is only an affordable luxury if you come from a upper middle class background and up. Most people can't afford to experiment with higher education given its high monetary cost. You guys might not agree, but qzx_pierri has a point.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#220

Nothing is a guarantee of a good life. A good life requires so many different elements, but mostly comes down to one thing: what you put into it, esp. in regards to improving the lives and welfare of others around you. Do this, and you will find that your own life gets better and better. Be kind, do work to help others, care about people and their lives (and not just your own) and you'll find that life will turn out…

> Nothing is a guarantee of a good life.

But lack of things and capital will never get you a good life. If you are starving, no matter what you put in or how kind you are to others, you cannot have a good life. If you are home insecure, you cannot have a good life. Period.

I'm going to define "good life" to mean food, housing, and health security.

While you're right that nothing is guaranteed, the wealthier you are, the more you can guarantee these basic needs.

Even me, being in tech making around 6 figures, I haven't achieved my definition of a good life. This is because if I lose my job, the basic needs I listed cannot be maintained.

However, if you do not need to work (i.e. CEOs, billionaires, etc.), you are more likely to have your basic needs for a good life met for the rest of your life even if you lose your "job". What I'm trying to say is that having things and lots of capital can very much get you to my aforementioned definition of a "good life".

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves with these philosophical questions of what a "good life" is. First, let's meet everyone's basic needs: food, housing, and health. Because those needs are clearly not met.

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