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Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article you linked: "We retain the middle cap in YouTube and MySpace because we think it prevents readers being confused by a word they are used to seeing in a particular way." I'm used to seeing NATO, and thought Nato might have been a political figure I hadn't heard of.

After reading this article you weren't sure what Nato was referring to? And thought maybe it was a political figure? Sorry, I can't believe that.

> After reading this article you weren't sure what Nato was referring to? And thought maybe it was a political figure? Sorry, I can't believe that.

At least for me, the confusion was cleared up immediately after looking at the article, but that doesn't mean this style of headline isn't any less confusing. After all, lots of places (like HN) only display the headline.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#132
post #114
post #67

USA itself is already souring on NATO, no hackers needed. Many in the USA are tired of being criticized for being the "world police" yet the same critics also scream when the USA starts pulling its military personnel out of their country (like Germany, most recently). I say Europe should use their own money to build their own Navy and Air Forces to protect their own interests and make their own trade and travel route…

Unfortunately for you and the rest of Americans that feel this isolationist tendency, your country will be a part of the world whether you like it or not. A modern conflict that does not involve the US is not the same thing as a modern conflict that does not affect the US. Also, your opinion of Europe doesn’t seem founded in reality. Since when does European nations not have their own standing armies, and since when…

> since when are American army resources used to protect European borders and shipping routes?

Since the 1940s.

> And from who?

Since WW2: Russia. The US military's position in Europe post WW2 enabled the destroyed, fragile nations of Europe to rebuild in the face of a Soviet onslaught to conquer as much territory in Europe as they could.

Also: Serbia, right in Europe's backyard. See: the Kosovo War. [1]

Also: Ukraine today. The sole reason Ukraine exists at all still, is that the US poses a severe threat to Russia were it to attempt a full annexation move using its military. They couldn't be certain how the US might react. Remove the US from that equation, and Russia knows the Western European powers will do nothing to stop it from taking Ukraine (other than protesting at the UN and throwing on some sanctions).

Russia would immediately begin annexing territory in several prominent Eastern European nations, along with militarily challenging several others (eg Poland), were the US to pull its military resources and declare it had no interest in European affairs. The Western European powers would do nothing to stop that and could do nothing. France and Britain have nuclear weapons, which would only be used as a threat if their own territory was at risk (which it would not be; France isn't going to nuclear war with Russia over annexed Eastern European territory). Among Western European nations only Britain and France are capable of operating their militaries beyond their own borders properly, and in those cases they can barely do that. This is fundamentally why it was the US that had to intervene to stop the Muslim genocide in Kosovo, because the Western European powers can't project their militaries well and lack the capabilities the US has.

[1] https://www.hrw.org/report/2001/10/27/under-orders/war-crime...

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#133

Gee, I wonder what nation could possibly be behind this?

Why are you sure it is a nation. NATO is by no means an uncontroversial entity. Millions of peace activists—including my self—would love to see it abolished. Although I do admit, the content of the fake news articles seem a little crude to be coming from peace activists. Personally I would post simple truthful anti-NATO, anti-military, and anti-nuclear weapons propaganda if I had the will to break into news web sites…

> Millions of peace activists—including my self—would love to see it abolished.

I wonder how Europe will respond when the next Crimea happens? Or if Taiwan gets attacked. It's a real question, and I'd love to hear from a peace-activist.

I'd bet Europe will do nothing. Merkel wouldn't even openly criticize China for stripping away democracy from Hong Kong. European models work well in a world without dictatorships. But as long as we have dictatorships, rigid pacifism is just throwing militarily weaker democracies under the bus. Irrespective of what one thinks about Trump, the US military a dependable ally for (many) democracies. And perhaps the only one with the willingness to act.

(Not an American.)

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#134
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get 12,000 soldiers home from Germany, deploy 1,000 in Poland and call it strengthening the eastern front. That math doesn't check out at all.

1. Germany isn't on the Eastern Front. Poland actually borders Russia (the exclave on the Baltic.) 2. The US is in the process of building a military base in Poland. > In 2018, Poland proposed that the United States open a permanent military base within its country. The Polish government would finance around $2 Billion of the cost of hosting American forces, if the proposal was accepted by the United States. Poland h…

Indeed.

> 1. Germany isn't on the Eastern Front. Poland actually borders Russia (the exclave on the Baltic.)

The Kaliningrad exclave is quite small, but it poses a real danger when the Suwalki Gap is taken into account. Given Belarus' friendly ties with Russia, there is only a small band of land that needs to be cut off to trap the Baltic states. It's important to secure that stretch. Ideally, Belarus would serve as a buffer, but that's a very difficult thing to achieve. Also good would be the ceding of Kaliningrad to Poland and Lithuania (historically, that region was a vassal of the Polish Crown). Perhaps in exchange for recognition of Russia's annexation of Crimea. Good luck with that, I guess.

Ideally, the Central European states east of Germany can play the US, Germany/EU, and Russia off each other to guarantee that the region is free from hegemonic dominance. Historically until the late 18th century, Polish dominance guaranteed stability and peace in the region. As both historical heir and as the largest country of the block, it is important the Poland resume its historical and geopolitically necessary role if Poland and the other states represented in the Three Seas Initiative are to remain free and prosperous. The stability offered would also benefit European stability by creating a bulwark against both Western and Eastern imperial ambitions.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#135

Gee, I wonder what nation could possibly be behind this?

Why are you sure it is a nation. NATO is by no means an uncontroversial entity. Millions of peace activists—including my self—would love to see it abolished. Although I do admit, the content of the fake news articles seem a little crude to be coming from peace activists. Personally I would post simple truthful anti-NATO, anti-military, and anti-nuclear weapons propaganda if I had the will to break into news web sites…

> Millions of peace activists—including my self—would love to see it abolished.

Why? I would think anyone who truly wanted peace would welcome treaties meant to deter war [1], and would want to expand them globally rather than abolish them. Small wars are still wars, and there's one going on right now one country away from NATO.

https://www.quora.com/What-do-NATO-rules-say-when-one-member...

[1] assuming war is never justified, even to prevent things like genocide.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#136
post #118

Always irks me how the media use the term "hackers" as some usurped terminology to describe criminal acts using technology. For me, it is like calling burglars a locksmith - that don't happen and yet we see the word "hacker" used by the media to describe criminal acts so far removed from the words original meaning that it just pains me and i'm sure many others. More so when the populus definition of that word now par…

The meaning of all words changes. It would be ironic if the meaning of the word hacker would be unchangeable, impenetrable.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#137
In Romania, fake news try to say that NATO military bases run a prostitution rings with underage girls. There was a case[1] where a criminal raped and killed a girl in a city near a NATO military base and all the fake news articles were trying to say that the criminal was providing underage girls for the NATO soldiers.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Alexandra_M%C4%8...

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#139

Once the USA has a sane commander-in-chief again, it's going to need to completely overhaul its approach to the Eastern European region, among other things.

How the USA should approach Eastern European region?

Why is the US interested in Europe at all? Whatever the reason, it's clear that failing to secure the Eastern Flank, even if there is no particular interest in Central and Eastern Europe (though there most certainly is), puts the rest of Europe in danger. A tangible example of this threat was the Polish-Soviet War of 1919-1920 (had the Poles lost, the Soviets would have marched right into Germany and probably beyond). The North European Plain is not exactly untraversable or empty of important East/West and North/South trade routes (it is the geographic center of Europe, remember).

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#140

Gee, I wonder what nation could possibly be behind this?

Why are you sure it is a nation. NATO is by no means an uncontroversial entity. Millions of peace activists—including my self—would love to see it abolished. Although I do admit, the content of the fake news articles seem a little crude to be coming from peace activists. Personally I would post simple truthful anti-NATO, anti-military, and anti-nuclear weapons propaganda if I had the will to break into news web sites…

The only two routes to peace are hegemony and balance of power. There are no other mechanisms that stop ambitious, ruthless people using force of arms to achieve their aims.

Getting rid of nuclear arms means surrendering to those who don't.

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