Live data from Hacker News

A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

theatlantic.com

161–170 of 497 posts

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> particularly when humanities topics are far more amenable to self-study than STEM topics. Really? I feel exactly the opposite, especially for CS. How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?

CS is an outlier. I imagine mathematics could be a good outlier as well. Its probably easier to find someone to help criticize your writing as opposed to getting your hands on expensive scientific / engineering equipment (both because of cost and regulations) however.

That's certainly fair.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people I know actually have careers directly related to their undergrad majors. I majored in Creative Writing and interdisciplinary (politics, philosophy, and economics) studies. Currently working as an applied AI researcher and about to go back to get my phd in AI as well. There are many paths to take. Often being different helps you stand out. Having a humanities and social science background is just as im…

"Currently working as an applied AI researcher and about to go back to get my phd in AI as well" : You're probably in the top 2% of intelligence, that's a huge advantage over most everyone else. People who are closer to the average may need to take more conventional paths to succeed.

What is that intelligence you’ve mentioned?

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#163

No one really goes to college and grad school to learn. Higher ed is commoditized as a: * insurance policy, where students use it to avoid limiting themselves to low-status and low-paying careers * lottery ticket, the gateway to a "prestige" career track [1] * status signaling mechanism, where young people flex their educational elitism [2] And higher ed is arguably bad at what its supposed be good at - a delivery me…

> No one really goes to college and grad school to learn I did. As did many of my classmates. I've found engineering fascinating since I was a child so I enjoyed the opportunity. > How many times have you been on a date and you tell or ask the other person where they wen to college, what they majored in, etc How is this "[flexing] educational elitism"? That is standard small talk to gauge another person's life experi…

> I did. As did many of my classmates. I've found engineering fascinating since I was a child so I enjoyed the opportunity.

I was told from a young age college was about learning and not grades. I believed that lie, aggressively optimized for learning over grades and that was a huge mistake.

Several times I skipped doing boring unnecessary homework or going to a useless class to work on projects that would teach me more. I would routinely do things like skip class to go above and beyond on interesting projects.

Despite getting above a 90 on all of my projects and exams, I graduated with a 2.4. I would routinely have calls with potential employers where they would say "wow after talking to you we're really impressed with your knowledge of c.s. and the projects you've completed. Oh btw I didn't see your gpa on your resume, what was it? Oh, I'm sorry. We only take people who have a gpa about 2.5/3.0/3.5. but don't worry you seem super personable and smart I know you're going to find something".

Now I tell all of my younger siblings. Optimize for grades and that's the only thing that matters. You can always pick up a book but you'll never be able to fix your gpa. My 2.4 and my wife's 4.0 continue to influence our lives (albeit now much more mildly) 10 years later.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#164

It is if you major in STEM (and you apply yourself and get internships, etc) - Majoring in "Eastern Gender Studies" will likely waste 4 years of your life.

I see that STEM chauvinism is still alive and well on Hacker News. Believe it or not, there are some skills you can pick up studying the humanities that will set you apart from your CS major peers. Being able to write and communicate clearly, for example, is pretty much a super power in most tech jobs.

The way I look at it now after working for large and small tech companies, the Stem degree will help you land your first job because you can be extremely green as long as you have that stem BS.

However a self taught programmer with a humanities degree can also get to the same position with some sweat equity.

Once at the position of software developer the person with the humanities degree takes off.

They've learned to write, they learned to talk and be communicative amongst friends and colleagues. Your job will let you learn as you go wrt to tech, but not as much with soft skills. where the stem grad is still that weird awkward guy who gets into arguments about pedantics, the humanities person is writing proposals and building a network.

The stem person needs to put in a lot more work on the soft skills they never learned, especially if they want to rise in the rankings, this is where the humanities person has that leg up

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it used to work like that in America. Graduate high school, get a decent paying union job in your hometown with an okay house to raise a family. Drink beer and watch sports on the weekends with neighborhood buddies. Work 30-40 years and retire.

i'd also argue that this definition of a good life only applies to certain subset of people. i would die on the inside

Sure, but I would argue you are in the minority, and it is a large subset of people who can work hard and be dependable, but don't have the talent to be a highly skilled knowledge worker, or can't pivot to different skill sets, which is required to have dependable employment these days.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people I know actually have careers directly related to their undergrad majors. I majored in Creative Writing and interdisciplinary (politics, philosophy, and economics) studies. Currently working as an applied AI researcher and about to go back to get my phd in AI as well. There are many paths to take. Often being different helps you stand out. Having a humanities and social science background is just as im…

"Currently working as an applied AI researcher and about to go back to get my phd in AI as well" : You're probably in the top 2% of intelligence, that's a huge advantage over most everyone else. People who are closer to the average may need to take more conventional paths to succeed.

> You're probably in the top 2% of intelligence

Would you say that intelligence is ...artificial?

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers are insane. As a society we need 100x or more developers than gender scientists, not 3x.

Do we? After a certain point more CS majors will just push salaries down. There is probably more valuable academic pursuits.

You can also increase the number by decreasing the gender studies majors instead of increasing the CS majors.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#168

Nothing is a guarantee of a good life. A good life requires so many different elements, but mostly comes down to one thing: what you put into it, esp. in regards to improving the lives and welfare of others around you. Do this, and you will find that your own life gets better and better. Be kind, do work to help others, care about people and their lives (and not just your own) and you'll find that life will turn out…

Exactly:

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/233578

"The only major personality trait that consistently leads to success is conscientiousness."

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#169
post #145
post #4

Most successful people have X. Government: “Let’s give everyone X!” Over time the value of X is diluted, loses its status signaling, and overall quality degrades. Successful people move to Y.

There are some things that does make everyone more successful. More education is overall better for society, even if it's no longer a guarantee of "success." Some things don't really get diluted but can enrich the lives of anyone they are involved in (if we disassociate the word "success" from a comparative cycle). For example, healthcare, books, digital entertainment, internet connectivity. The comparative advantage…

That's why you mostly see this push-back in places with horrendously broken higher ed systems.

Re: A College Degree Is No Guarantee of a Good Life

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To prove intelligence and conscientiousness? Probably PhD degree.

A PhD only signals that you have an unhealthy relationship with academia. I've interviewed and worked with so many PhD from top tier schools and it's astounding to me that someone can spend 6+ years studying a quantitative science, at a school like MIT or Harvard and still not have a basic understanding of statistics, and worse be incapable of genuinely understanding any of the quantitative tools they used for years.…

Another thing with a PhD is that it is no guarantee that you'll even be hireable. I know of a number of PhD candidates who have trouble interacting in a professional setting outside of the of 'I deserve deference because I have a PhD, you don't necessarily even deserve respect' mentality.

I find sometimes a PhD can come with very ingrained attitude issues. I recall working for a company with a new-recruit development program where really the only way to fail out was through attitude issues. One of the people who oversaw the program mentioned that she's only ever seen people with PhDs and higher fail out over this issue.

Post reply on HN