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Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#71

Post by auganov »

bovermyer wrote: post #70
auganov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Russian propaganda is obviously targeting President Trump's plans to strengthen the eastern flank of NATO. Something Obama has been extremely weak on. He cancelled Missile Defense after opposition from Russia (famously promising "Vladimir" “more flexibility” on the issue after his "last election"). Eastern European leaders were warning Obama about Ukraine way before it happened but he wouldn't listen. And before…

"Russian propaganda?" Well, I think that's the first time I've been called Russian propaganda. I got a good chuckle out of that. EDIT - I misunderstood the comment. I'm leaving my original reply intact above, however, for clarity.

No, it refers to the story.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#72

Post by winter_blue »

If the recent HN story of Apple taking 30% of refunded purchases is any indication, fabricated stories have a frighteningly strong staying power.

What was especially sad was that a highly knowledgeable group of people (HN) were misled and deceived by the Apple story (which could have been easy verified). If HN is so easily misled, how much more likely is the general population vulnerable to these foreign-government-orchestrated intentional information war campaigns?

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#73

Post by _pmf_ »

bovermyer wrote: post #5

Once the USA has a sane commander-in-chief again, it's going to need to completely overhaul its approach to the Eastern European region, among other things.

He moves us Europeans to carry more of their own weight, which is both good for Europeans and the US.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#74

Post by AndrewBissell »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #58
AndrewBissell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia would know that any fake stories it posts after hacking the BBC will be immediately taken down and corrected. Not only that, but it lets Western governments know Russia has that capability and take measures to counter it. There's a lot more damage they could do with hacked news sites than just "discrediting NATO." They get little or no benefit out of a hack like this. On the other hand, if this thread is any i…

The killing of Russians in the UK and Germany (and elsewhere) was also by domestic intelligence agencies? And the BND and MI6 cooperated on these killings? Otherwise Western governments would know GRU capabilities?

Russia has a strong interest in and pattern of silencing regime critics, so no, I think those killings were almost certainly carried out by Russia.

I'm not sure what their interest would be in using this once-and-done hack to post a bunch of articles about NATO that no one will even read.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#75

Post by bovermyer »

auganov wrote: post #71
bovermyer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Russian propaganda?" Well, I think that's the first time I've been called Russian propaganda. I got a good chuckle out of that. EDIT - I misunderstood the comment. I'm leaving my original reply intact above, however, for clarity.

No, it refers to the story.

Ah, my mistake.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#76

Post by throwaway0a5e »

_jal wrote: post #48
HenryKissinger wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this concern is overblown. It certainly hasn't stopped Canada and Mexico from negotiating the USMCA trade agreement, for example. The JCPOA (more commonly known as the Iran deal) constrained Iran's nuclear program, and it was with great disappointment that I watched the administration withdraw. But there were anecdotal reports of transgressions on Iran's part, and the JCPOA was never submitted to the US Senat…

The incentives and risks look very different in a local free trade agreement than, say, multilateral talks about What To Do About Syria. Please name some relevant countries who might be willing to bet their internal security that a hypothetical 5 year security promise from the US would definitely be operative after year 4. But I do hope I'm wrong. I guess we'll see.

>Please name some relevant countries who might be willing to bet their internal security that a hypothetical 5 year security promise from the US would definitely be operative after year 4.

Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Israel and everyone in NATO from Poland on west.

Yes, we're going through a rough patch because the US is (rightfully) sick of playing world police at the same time as China/Russia are on the up but to think that the US and all the other regionally relevant powers (e.g. NATO members for Europe) wouldn't retaliate against an attempt to annex territories in any of those countries is crazy. Also Panama and Egypt (who both have critical global shipping lanes) don't really have to worry about their sovereignty being violated by any nation that the first world would expect to restrict access to their shipping lanes.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#77

Post by oarsinsync »

kryogen1c wrote: post #36
shellac wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an initialism vs acronym thing: when the initials are treated as a word (e.g. NASA, but not BBC) you don't have to capitalise the whole thing (Hence 'Nasa' is ok). See https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/collegeofjournalism/entries/8f7c... for an explanation.

> initialism vs acronym oh how interesting, ive never seen this debate before. I guess it confused because, internally, i dont treat acronyms as words. I dont think of NASA as Nasa or NATO as Nato, i find this counter-intuitive. to think out loud, this seems antithetical to what an acronym is in the first place. NASA is a pointer, not an object. creating a new object Nasa templated from the pointer NASA (not the obje…

> the Bbc ( :-D ) does it, so apparently im the exception and not the normal.

I assume the smiley indicates that you're aware that 'BBC' would actually be correct, and that 'Bbc' is not appropriate (because we say 'Bee Bee See', not 'Bubk'), unlike NATO/Nato ('Nay toe')

Also, I prefer NATO over Nato personally. NATO reads 'Nay toe', while Nato reads 'Nat oh' in my head.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

hakka-nyu-su wrote: post #55
koheripbal wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you mean Russia, but China, North Korea, and Iran also have an interest in weakening NATO.

The military alliances of the United States in Asia are not part of NATO.

That doesn't mean China can't see a benefit from chaos within NATO.

Australia may not be in NATO, but there's close coordination anyways.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#79

Post by _jal »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #76
_jal wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentives and risks look very different in a local free trade agreement than, say, multilateral talks about What To Do About Syria. Please name some relevant countries who might be willing to bet their internal security that a hypothetical 5 year security promise from the US would definitely be operative after year 4. But I do hope I'm wrong. I guess we'll see.

>Please name some relevant countries who might be willing to bet their internal security that a hypothetical 5 year security promise from the US would definitely be operative after year 4. Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Israel and everyone in NATO from Poland on west. Yes, we're going through a rough patch because the US is (rightfully) sick of playing world police at the same time as China/Russia are on the up but to t…

What does Taiwan have to do with Syria?

If we're going to discuss this, let's not play "Goalposts? What are those?"

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#80

Post by SpaceRaccoon »

HenryKissinger wrote: post #41
jialutu wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the US blowing up the Middle East, where Germany and much of European countries having to deal with the refugees as a consequence of those wars? I think countries like Germany have been penalised enough by the US for not picking up the slack for the refugee situation.

The flows of refugees from Syria to Turkey and Greece were largely due to the fallout of the Syrian Civil War, which the United States was neither responsible for starting, could not have prevented from starting, and could not have stopped once it began.

Heard of Timber Sycamore?
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