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A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

yiransheng.com

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Re: A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

#61
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great if I never had to see another eliza. If it can't string more than 2 utterances together, its not AI, it certainly doesnt pass the Turing test, and its a waste of time.

Do you actually remember what the Turing Test is? I think a lot of people classify it in their head as "a test to determine if an AI is smart" but that's an oversimplification; that's the goal, not the methodology. The test is whether someone talking to both a human and a computer can tell which one is the computer, or less strictly, whether a human can tell that they are talking to a bot. It has turned out that in p…

You're missing part of the Turing test - the humans involved need to have an incentive to prove they are human. A bot that's indistinguishable from a typical youtube commenter doesn't clear that bar.

Re: A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

#63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great if I never had to see another eliza. If it can't string more than 2 utterances together, its not AI, it certainly doesnt pass the Turing test, and its a waste of time.

Do you actually remember what the Turing Test is? I think a lot of people classify it in their head as "a test to determine if an AI is smart" but that's an oversimplification; that's the goal, not the methodology. The test is whether someone talking to both a human and a computer can tell which one is the computer, or less strictly, whether a human can tell that they are talking to a bot. It has turned out that in p…

Originally, as proposed by Turing, the test involved a computer, a man and a woman and the computer is trying to identify who was the man and who the woman, while the humans could try to deceive the machine.

Re: A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

#65
post #63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually remember what the Turing Test is? I think a lot of people classify it in their head as "a test to determine if an AI is smart" but that's an oversimplification; that's the goal, not the methodology. The test is whether someone talking to both a human and a computer can tell which one is the computer, or less strictly, whether a human can tell that they are talking to a bot. It has turned out that in p…

Originally, as proposed by Turing, the test involved a computer, a man and a woman and the computer is trying to identify who was the man and who the woman, while the humans could try to deceive the machine.

I think you're confusing a couple different things. There was an old party game in Turing's time where someone conversed with both a man and a woman and tried to identify which was which, and Turing was inspired by this concept to devise a test where someone conversed with a human and a computer and tried to identify which was the computer and which was the human.

Re: A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

#66
post #23

This just remembered me about the MIT system created by Terry Winograd in 1970 called SHRDLU. I have always considered that you need an environment to create an artifical intelligence. The basics for a real progress are to be able to learn and if you cannot 'feel' the environment that becomes really hard. There are some basic concepts needed for a 'natural talk' you cannot learn if you cannot perceive things (lets sa…

I was really impressed with that when I read about it (I think Douglas Hofstader had a section about it in GEB).

Does anyone know if there have been similar projects along the same lines? (i.e. with a constrained virtual environment)

Re: A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

#67
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Originally, as proposed by Turing, the test involved a computer, a man and a woman and the computer is trying to identify who was the man and who the woman, while the humans could try to deceive the machine.

I think you're confusing a couple different things. There was an old party game in Turing's time where someone conversed with both a man and a woman and tried to identify which was which, and Turing was inspired by this concept to devise a test where someone conversed with a human and a computer and tried to identify which was the computer and which was the human.

The parent is actually correct. From the original paper:

The new form of the problem can be described in terms of a game which we call the 'imitation game." It is played with three people, a man (A), a woman (B), and an interrogator (C) who may be of either sex. The interrogator stays in a room apart front the other two. The object of the game for the interrogator is to determine which of the other two is the man and which is the woman. He knows them by labels X and Y, and at the end of the game he says either "X is A and Y is B" or "X is B and Y is A." The interrogator is allowed to put questions to A and B thus:

C: Will X please tell me the length of his or her hair?

Now suppose X is actually A, then A must answer. It is A's object in the game to try and cause C to make the wrong identification. His answer might therefore be:

"My hair is shingled, and the longest strands are about nine inches long."

In order that tones of voice may not help the interrogator the answers should be written, or better still, typewritten. The ideal arrangement is to have a teleprinter communicating between the two rooms. Alternatively the question and answers can be repeated by an intermediary. The object of the game for the third player (B) is to help the interrogator. The best strategy for her is probably to give truthful answers. She can add such things as "I am the woman, don't listen to him!" to her answers, but it will avail nothing as the man can make similar remarks.

We now ask the question, "What will happen when a machine takes the part of A in this game?" Will the interrogator decide wrongly as often when the game is played like this as he does when the game is played between a man and a woman? These questions replace our original, "Can machines think?"

/end quote

Re: A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

#68
This reminds me of Waiting For Godot: "ESTRAGON: And so on. VLADIMIR: The point is— ESTRAGON: Until he comes. VLADIMIR: You're merciless. ESTRAGON: We came here yesterday. VLADIMIR: Ah no, there you're mistaken. ESTRAGON: What did we do yesterday? VLADIMIR: What did we do yesterday? ESTRAGON: Yes. VLADIMIR: Why . . . (Angrily.) Nothing is certain when you're about. ESTRAGON: In my opinion we were here. VLADIMIR: (looking round). You recognize the place? ESTRAGON: I didn't say that."

Re: A conversation between two chatbots and how one found out the other is an AI.

#69
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great if I never had to see another eliza. If it can't string more than 2 utterances together, its not AI, it certainly doesnt pass the Turing test, and its a waste of time.

Do you actually remember what the Turing Test is? I think a lot of people classify it in their head as "a test to determine if an AI is smart" but that's an oversimplification; that's the goal, not the methodology. The test is whether someone talking to both a human and a computer can tell which one is the computer, or less strictly, whether a human can tell that they are talking to a bot. It has turned out that in p…

how bout this refinement - wouldn't pass the turing test if tested by me.
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