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Why forgiving someone else is about you

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Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#71

Post by sumtechguy »

trabant00 wrote: post #45

> Without forgiveness, accumulated resentments extract a toll, says forgiveness coach Kym Kennedy. Without snake oil your accumulated borxins extract a toll on your health, says snake oil salesman. We get angry to have an emotional STOP sign attached to certain experiences, people, things, etc. You should always forgive like you should always forget that fire burns. Go ahead, put your hand back in, get it out of your…

I live with someone who does not 'forget' and accumulates. It eats at them every day. They get wildly angry at total strangers now for slight transgressions. I regularly have to walk them through how most of what happens is not aimed at them. People are just kinda of selfish or literally did not see you. It eats at them all the time. I find them sitting in a room. "what are you thinking" they will bring up something that happened well over 30 years ago as if it just happened to them 5 minutes ago. Sometimes it is how someone made a bad turn in front of them in a car, sometimes it is how someone swindled them for money. Yes, that was crappy what happened but if you live with that sort of thing all the time you will be depressed and angry (as you can do nothing now). You will bring down those around you. You will always be on edge and guarded against anything that may harm you. Real forgiveness takes 'letting go' of it. You can remember it so they do not do it to you again. But be careful not to hold on to it and relive it over and over.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#72

Post by [deleted] »

brightball wrote: post #30
hawk_ wrote: post #2

While law doesn't have place for revenge in a civilised society and rightly so, the need for revenge/retribution I suspect is quite innate. It's healthy to try to forgive but it's quite difficult, almost like you can't fool yourselves into thinking you aren't hungry.

Anecdotal I know, but I tried for 2 years to forgive someone who had deeply wronged my family, but I simply couldn’t get past feeling like we needed to go to court to make it right and it was eating me up inside. My wife suggested I ask God to help, which I hadn’t tried and didn’t think it would make a difference but I tried it. And it worked. The next day the anger was just...gone and remains so to this day. I reali…

[deleted]

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#73

Post by Kwantuum »

scottious wrote: post #66
OneGuy123 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You caught yourself in a trap (similar to which I also did). Yes, your parents were assholes. What has to be realized is that yes: your parents were assholes and this probably did had a (severly) negative effect in your PRACTICAL life. But what must be understood is that what is done is done. This doesn't meat that you say "my parents are ok". This means that you, on a deep level, realize that your parents have issue…

Recently mother showed up unannounced at my house in tears and SCREAMED at my wife and I for HOURS and wouldn't leave. It was an absolute ambush. The reason? She wanted to get together earlier in the day but we had an appointment so we had to postpone it to later in the day. yes, that's all it takes. Our son was TEN DAYS OLD at the time. That was 18 months ago. Since then she's been the nastiest, most unpleasant pers…

> When do I just call it quits?

Ten years ago. The second best time is right now. You do not have to take abuse from them because they are family. "the past is the past, people have flaws" is only valid for things that are actually in the past. Sounds like your parents' abuse would be much easier to deal with if it was a part of the past.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#74

Post by tombert »

As a rule if I feel someone makes an honest apology, I will almost always forgive them, at least if they did something to me (and I try really hard to apply the reverse and apologize sincerely if I think there's even a chance of something being my fault).

What I've found is that I'm far less-willing or able to forgive people for doing things to hurt people that aren't me. For example, I haven't talked to my grandmother in almost 4 years because she said some really racist stuff that would get this post flagged if I repeated it. Do these comments hurt me, a yuppie white dude who's biggest problem is being bored from working at home? No, not really, but it's not just about me, and I feel like "forgiveness" would be insulting to the people who it does hurt.

I'll admit this might be a character flaw on my end, but I also don't see myself changing on that.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#75

Post by elsigh »

scottious wrote: post #66
OneGuy123 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You caught yourself in a trap (similar to which I also did). Yes, your parents were assholes. What has to be realized is that yes: your parents were assholes and this probably did had a (severly) negative effect in your PRACTICAL life. But what must be understood is that what is done is done. This doesn't meat that you say "my parents are ok". This means that you, on a deep level, realize that your parents have issue…

Recently mother showed up unannounced at my house in tears and SCREAMED at my wife and I for HOURS and wouldn't leave. It was an absolute ambush. The reason? She wanted to get together earlier in the day but we had an appointment so we had to postpone it to later in the day. yes, that's all it takes. Our son was TEN DAYS OLD at the time. That was 18 months ago. Since then she's been the nastiest, most unpleasant pers…

Why not move and call it quits? That might actually enable you to forgive them (from afar). Calling it quits was the first step in my forgiveness towards my parents. You could send them occasional updates but you shouldn't feel like you're obligated to otherwise engage (at least for a period of like 6 months - and then reevaluate).

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#76

Post by watwut »

GavinMcG wrote: post #63
watwut wrote: post #26

I really have issue with the whole often repeated "If something was done to you that actually makes you victim of x, there is something wrong with you. You must not be victim, even when you was victim" thing. Its consequences is "I did not wanted to complain because that would make me victim" which is no good result. I don't like the part where you have to make yourself responsible for it either.

You've got to make yourself responsible for your emotional reality, because you're the only one who can consistently influence it. Or at least, it's up to you whether you allow others to influence it. No one denies that people really are victimized. But whether they let that victim vs. perpetrator mindset play out in their other relationships and lived experiences is (with time and practice) up to them.

I do not know what "victim mindset" is supposed to be. Victim is descriptor - something negative was done to you. You don't become victim by looking at things certain way. Nor you do stop being one. If you was robbed, you are robbery victim regardless of what your mindset is.

Most of this is about denying that you might be victim of something either to yourself or to others.

Plus, people actually really do deny that. If you read this article in full, majority of examples are about trying to figure out whether you don't misremember or misrepresent what happened.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#77

Post by trabant00 »

sumtechguy wrote: post #71
trabant00 wrote: post #45

> Without forgiveness, accumulated resentments extract a toll, says forgiveness coach Kym Kennedy. Without snake oil your accumulated borxins extract a toll on your health, says snake oil salesman. We get angry to have an emotional STOP sign attached to certain experiences, people, things, etc. You should always forgive like you should always forget that fire burns. Go ahead, put your hand back in, get it out of your…

I live with someone who does not 'forget' and accumulates. It eats at them every day. They get wildly angry at total strangers now for slight transgressions. I regularly have to walk them through how most of what happens is not aimed at them. People are just kinda of selfish or literally did not see you. It eats at them all the time. I find them sitting in a room. "what are you thinking" they will bring up something…

Getting angry for nothing is completely another topic. There is nothing to forgive then.

Not forgiving does not mean you always think and remeber of. This yet another issue.

Not forgiving means just that. If anybody asks you if you forgave you answer no. Not that you despair every moment thinking about who wronged you when.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#79

Post by ogurechny »

jerkstate wrote: post #59
ogurechny wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complete misunderstanding, in my opinion. It is not an accounting of receipts and expenditures, not some “game theory” example, not an investment onto “the betterment of a society”, etc. You don't need anything to forgive, to do the right thing, it is always in your power. It might be hard, but it has always been like that.

Well like elsewhere in the thread, people have mentioned that forgiveness is a complicated word. You should definitely learn to "let it go" regardless of whether you've received any apology, in terms of not letting it affect your psyche negatively, but in terms of future interactions with someone who wronged you and can't show contrition or growth, you have no obligation to put yourself into a position where they can…

“Letting it go to feel better”, in my opinion, is also an accounting, some self-objectifying robot maintenance. It is strange that people find it hard to imagine how to forgive without receiving anything back.

For one thing, I seriously doubt I'm in position to judge “growth” of other people.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#80

Post by UnpossibleJim »

scottious wrote: post #25

As somebody who's struggling to forgive somebody who's wronged me, I find this article to be a bit wishy-washy, like this: > Reexamine your perceptions of life events that have trapped you in the role of victim. well, what if somebody really truly was a victim? What if one's parents have condescended and belittled them for decades? What if one's mother is abusive and drinks too much? What if somebody spent their enti…

It also seemed a bit on the side of blaming the victim. It seemed, at least to me, to try very hard to walk the line to try to empower people by saying it isn't their fault you're a victim, it's your fault you're a victim and there's power in that. That seems to pull accountability away from the responsible parties. Though, admittedly, I am biased.
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