Why forgiving someone else is about you • Hacker News Board

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#61

Post by GavinMcG » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

trabant00 wrote: post #55

stupidcar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy. Taking steps to heal yourself from damage, such as a physical burn or a psychological wound, doesn't necessarily mean not taking the threat seriously in future. Pain is a signal that teaches us a lesson. Once the lesson is learned, holding onto the pain can just be needless suffering.

You would be right if people would be rational, which they are not. They are emotional. If you forgive the abusive partner, the loan shark, the casino, etc, you return to them no matter what lessons you learned rationally. And this happens in real life a lot, it isn't just a theory.

> If you forgive the abusive partner, the loan shark, the casino, etc, you return to them

No?

Forgiveness is the letting go of the past. It doesn't mean going back to or repeating the situation.

When you heal your broken leg, you don't necessarily go back to skydiving.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#62

Post by ogurechny » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #34

ogurechny wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have just made a speech about non-Aryan sub-human pests… wasps. I'm not sure whether it is sad or funny.

>You have just made a speech about non-Aryan sub-human pests… wasps Are you hearing a dog whistle that I'm not? Wasps (the black and yellow flying kind, not the "control political discourse in the Boston-DC corridor" kind) in his example are obviously just a metaphor that's being used as a stand in for some thing that is uncontroversially considered harmful.

Well, wasps also consider some things harmful, and they, too, don't turn the other cheek. The outcome is well known. People, on the other hand, supposedly have a little bit of the brain to understand the situation better instead of slandering the “natural enemy”.

“Cleansing” nature is no different from “cleansing” people.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#63

Post by GavinMcG » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:20 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #26

I really have issue with the whole often repeated "If something was done to you that actually makes you victim of x, there is something wrong with you. You must not be victim, even when you was victim" thing. Its consequences is "I did not wanted to complain because that would make me victim" which is no good result. I don't like the part where you have to make yourself responsible for it either.

You've got to make yourself responsible for your emotional reality, because you're the only one who can consistently influence it. Or at least, it's up to you whether you allow others to influence it.

No one denies that people really are victimized. But whether they let that victim vs. perpetrator mindset play out in their other relationships and lived experiences is (with time and practice) up to them.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#64

Post by miedpo » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

I know this is a difficult subject for many. In any case, I can say this of my own experiences with forgiveness. I find that forgiveness really helps me feel happy.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#65

Post by trabant00 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

GavinMcG wrote: post #61

trabant00 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be right if people would be rational, which they are not. They are emotional. If you forgive the abusive partner, the loan shark, the casino, etc, you return to them no matter what lessons you learned rationally. And this happens in real life a lot, it isn't just a theory.

> If you forgive the abusive partner, the loan shark, the casino, etc, you return to them No? Forgiveness is the letting go of the past. It doesn't mean going back to or repeating the situation. When you heal your broken leg, you don't necessarily go back to skydiving.

Does what I said and you quoted happen or not? Because we can argue theory all you want, but reality is what actually happens.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#66

Post by scottious » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

OneGuy123 wrote: post #57

scottious wrote: post #25

As somebody who's struggling to forgive somebody who's wronged me, I find this article to be a bit wishy-washy, like this: > Reexamine your perceptions of life events that have trapped you in the role of victim. well, what if somebody really truly was a victim? What if one's parents have condescended and belittled them for decades? What if one's mother is abusive and drinks too much? What if somebody spent their enti…

You caught yourself in a trap (similar to which I also did). Yes, your parents were assholes. What has to be realized is that yes: your parents were assholes and this probably did had a (severly) negative effect in your PRACTICAL life. But what must be understood is that what is done is done. This doesn't meat that you say "my parents are ok". This means that you, on a deep level, realize that your parents have issue…

Recently mother showed up unannounced at my house in tears and SCREAMED at my wife and I for HOURS and wouldn't leave. It was an absolute ambush. The reason? She wanted to get together earlier in the day but we had an appointment so we had to postpone it to later in the day. yes, that's all it takes.

Our son was TEN DAYS OLD at the time. That was 18 months ago.

Since then she's been the nastiest, most unpleasant person to be around and my father is condescending as hell and still tries to boss me around at 35 years old.

This doesn't really feel like a "the past is the past, people have flaws". This more feels like an assault on my day-to-day life.

It has been like this since I was a kid and I see not even the slightest bit of progress or self-reflection. When do I just call it quits?

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#67

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

orwin wrote: post #60

I think revenge and forgiveness are big words with a lot of different meanings. Someone close to me was raped a few years back. No witnesses (yeah, he was her boss and asked her to stay a bit longer), so the perpetrator could walk of free of worries. It was enraging, but we simply learned not to care. What's done is done. Is this forgiveness? However everyone i talk to in the city where it happened know that the part…

[deleted]

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#68

Post by shoes_for_thee » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #34

ogurechny wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have just made a speech about non-Aryan sub-human pests… wasps. I'm not sure whether it is sad or funny.

>You have just made a speech about non-Aryan sub-human pests… wasps Are you hearing a dog whistle that I'm not? Wasps (the black and yellow flying kind, not the "control political discourse in the Boston-DC corridor" kind) in his example are obviously just a metaphor that's being used as a stand in for some thing that is uncontroversially considered harmful.

He's making a unfunny joke about white anglo-saxon protestants

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#69

Post by GavinMcG » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

trabant00 wrote: post #65

GavinMcG wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you forgive the abusive partner, the loan shark, the casino, etc, you return to them No? Forgiveness is the letting go of the past. It doesn't mean going back to or repeating the situation. When you heal your broken leg, you don't necessarily go back to skydiving.

Does what I said and you quoted happen or not? Because we can argue theory all you want, but reality is what actually happens.

But does what I'm saying also happen? Because if so, you're conflating forgiving with forgetting.

This is advocating forgiveness, not forgetfulness.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#70

Post by rowanG077 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:29 PM UTC

scottious wrote: post #66

OneGuy123 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You caught yourself in a trap (similar to which I also did). Yes, your parents were assholes. What has to be realized is that yes: your parents were assholes and this probably did had a (severly) negative effect in your PRACTICAL life. But what must be understood is that what is done is done. This doesn't meat that you say "my parents are ok". This means that you, on a deep level, realize that your parents have issue…

Recently mother showed up unannounced at my house in tears and SCREAMED at my wife and I for HOURS and wouldn't leave. It was an absolute ambush. The reason? She wanted to get together earlier in the day but we had an appointment so we had to postpone it to later in the day. yes, that's all it takes. Our son was TEN DAYS OLD at the time. That was 18 months ago. Since then she's been the nastiest, most unpleasant pers…

Cut them out. You are forcing yourself into victimhood by including them in your life.