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Why forgiving someone else is about you

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Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#21

Post by nicoburns »

willcipriano wrote: post #15
hnarayanan wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe revenge helps you?

As with all things in life it really depends on how you frame it. As a young man I encountered many people who were unkind, told me that my goals were impossible and mocked me for my ambition. Now that I have succeeded at those aims and continued to grow as a human being it is a great feeling to encounter those people in life and see that they haven't been as successful as I have. I can't help but think that I perhap…

Proving someone wrong isn't revenge. Revenge would be if you used your newfound position of power to actively hurt them in some way.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#22

Post by Waterfall »

paulsutter wrote: post #7

In which we learn that forgiveness is a suitcase word (prone to useless debate as each party uses a different definition) https://alexvermeer.com/unpacking-suitcase-words/

I never knew the term before! Thank you. I've heard it applied to love, for women it often means it willingness of others to sacrifice for them, and for men it's dedication, at least in heterosexual relationships in the West. I've found these expectations truthful in my life. Had no idea it was a class of words.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#23

Post by mc32 »

njacobs5074 wrote: post #5
hawk_ wrote: post #2

While law doesn't have place for revenge in a civilised society and rightly so, the need for revenge/retribution I suspect is quite innate. It's healthy to try to forgive but it's quite difficult, almost like you can't fool yourselves into thinking you aren't hungry.

It does seem to be an innate part of our behavior. It's interesting because the interviewee strongly suggests that we forgive others when it no longer makes sense to hold a grudge. On the other hand, she also recommends that we cultivate that feeling because it often gives no benefit to not move on from the wrong that was visited upon us.

Couldn’t it have a function of regulating social behavior such that by holding a grudge society is helped if this causes the perp to at least be aware of impropriety of their transgression?

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#25

Post by scottious »

As somebody who's struggling to forgive somebody who's wronged me, I find this article to be a bit wishy-washy, like this:

> Reexamine your perceptions of life events that have trapped you in the role of victim.

well, what if somebody really truly was a victim? What if one's parents have condescended and belittled them for decades? What if one's mother is abusive and drinks too much? What if somebody spent their entire childhood planning their escape from their parents (successfully!)

That kind of stuff doesn't just go away. Is it even possible to forgive somebody who honestly doesn't think they've done anything wrong?

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#26

Post by watwut »

I really have issue with the whole often repeated "If something was done to you that actually makes you victim of x, there is something wrong with you. You must not be victim, even when you was victim" thing. Its consequences is "I did not wanted to complain because that would make me victim" which is no good result.

I don't like the part where you have to make yourself responsible for it either.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#27

Post by watwut »

scottious wrote: post #25

As somebody who's struggling to forgive somebody who's wronged me, I find this article to be a bit wishy-washy, like this: > Reexamine your perceptions of life events that have trapped you in the role of victim. well, what if somebody really truly was a victim? What if one's parents have condescended and belittled them for decades? What if one's mother is abusive and drinks too much? What if somebody spent their enti…

I call this stuff self-gasslighting. You convince yourself that you was at fault for own abuse.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#28

Post by ogurechny »

Waterfall wrote: post #12
hnarayanan wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe revenge helps you?

Yes. If you were stung by a wasp does it make you happy when you smack it to death and it never stings you again? Or do you forgive it as it continues to sting you and you gladly turn the other cheek to let it sting your other cheek too? Then when your facial cheeks are all stung, do you let it sting both your lower cheeks so when you sit down you can forgive them? Now the whole village is being stung by wasps and yo…

You have just made a speech about non-Aryan sub-human pests… wasps. I'm not sure whether it is sad or funny.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#29

Post by ben_w »

ogurechny wrote: post #20

People considering a two thousand year old idea an original fresh take show how self-delusional the concept of “progress” and believing in being smarter than than brutes of the past are.

Progress is a different thing to having an accurate model of what long-dead people thought.

I mean, it can even be hard to accurately model someone who you’re having a conversation with.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#30

Post by brightball »

hawk_ wrote: post #2

While law doesn't have place for revenge in a civilised society and rightly so, the need for revenge/retribution I suspect is quite innate. It's healthy to try to forgive but it's quite difficult, almost like you can't fool yourselves into thinking you aren't hungry.

Anecdotal I know, but I tried for 2 years to forgive someone who had deeply wronged my family, but I simply couldn’t get past feeling like we needed to go to court to make it right and it was eating me up inside.

My wife suggested I ask God to help, which I hadn’t tried and didn’t think it would make a difference but I tried it. And it worked. The next day the anger was just...gone and remains so to this day.

I realize it’s anecdotal and I don’t expect most people to take it seriously but it changed my life.

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