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Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

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Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#41
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to "Anti-racists", MLK's dream of "judging people by the content of their character" is now a racist dog-whistle. Not sure when, but eventually the shoe must drop and people realize this so-called "Anti-racism" is an incredibly racist ideology. This is not progress.

How can we provide economic remedy for the centuries of economic warfare against Black Americans if any remedy specifically addressed to Black people is considered 'racist'? How else do we close the black-white wealth gap legacy of legal racism in America if we're not allowed to do anything to help Black people specifically out of fear of "reverse racism"? Can we worry about getting Black America the economic remedie…

This is a good question. I would argue you do it by creating policies to help all low-income families, irregardless of identity.

Many government policies aren't just systemically racist (some indeed are), but are also systemically "class-ist". Meaning they are designed to keep poor people poor and rich people rich. If you segment a population (say Black communities), they will become disproportionately more poor over time, and if you segment your stats by race it then appears to be specifically targeting that group. In fact you can find similar stats for Mexican/Latino-americans, who are also victim to the same policies.

So if we focus on just fixing Black issues specifically, we are now ignoring another minority group. Why doesn't Google show "Mexican-owned" businesses, or "Asian-owned", or "Female-owned" businesses? This isn't progress, nor is it useful. Perhaps more useful identifier would be "Community-owned" or "Low-income-family-run establishment", so if people are really interested in helping these poor communities, they can do so universally. Segmenting ourselves by racial or gender identity does not solve the problem, and is in fact guaranteed to make things worse in the long run.

As a progressive I am frustrated that people who call themselves progressive are now promoting regressive racially charged policies. This is not what progress should look like.

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#42

If the business owners choose to broadcast that label then it’s fine. The only thing I don’t like about this social pattern is that it can over time lead to people becoming more prejudiced. Filter by white-owned, Chinese owned, etc. The worst version of it was when Germany labeled Jewish owned businesses. The best way to deal with a bug is to not design a system where the bug could appear.

> The best way to deal with a bug is to not design a system where the bug could appear.

Correct. The problem right now is that prosperity around small businesses tends to be stumbled-upon by people with the necessary networks and safety nets. Said people largely tend to be White, and as a result, there's a bias in the number of White-owned businesses which succeed.

Affirmative Action and other policies (including this move by Google) recognize this and realize that the only way to level the playing field is to artificially boost the signal on Black-owned businesses, Black attendance in higher-ed, etc., because with policies that completely remove all handicaps, momentum is sustained, and momentum right now is in favor of sustained systemic racism (even after the protests).

That's also why policies like this generally aren't considered racist: because they act to level the playing field when a certain group has an outsized advantage.

> The only thing I don’t like about this social pattern is that it can over time lead to people becoming more prejudiced. Filter by white-owned, Chinese owned, etc. The worst version of it was when Germany labeled Jewish owned businesses.

To this point, it's also a difficult balance to strike. How can we get to as close to level as possible without instilling the wrong search practices long term? I don't think anyone knows the answer yet.

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#43
post #2

Is this a good thing? Why should I care about the skin color of the owner of a restaurant or business I'm thinking of going to?

My personal reason for caring:

Without saying that white-owned businesses have it easy (no one has it easy these days), I believe that black-owned businesses face additional, unique challenges that white-owned businesses don’t. Some of those challenges are new (eg communities of color being disproportionately impacted by COVID-19) and others have been around for much longer (ranging from black communities being historically disenfranchised to the the mental overhead of code switching when talking to the majority of the country). Taken as a whole, I feel they contribute to a reality where owning a business is harder for a person of color than a white person.

That appeals to my sense of fairness in business: someone shouldn’t have to work 10%, 20%, or 100% harder to achieve the same outcomes. I feel ill-equipped to address this unfairness systemically (volunteering my time to teach code is the only example I can think of at the moment) but letting the reality of a black-owned business’s challenges factor into my purchasing decisions feels like a valid way to tip the scales back a bit closer to equilibrium.

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#45
post #9

It's less intrusive than spamming my Google assistant quick actions with an undismissable "black lives matter" button for the last couple weeks. When tapped, it affirms BLM solidarity vow. My phone region wasn't even North America. More ontopic, wonder if this will be extended to other minorities. Easy way to filter out actually Mexican owned taco shops. Or Japanese owned sushi. What let's go full political, what if…

> My phone region wasn't even North America.

The spread of US internal issues to the rest of the world is quite frightening to be honest. A social unrest in North America has way, way more influence in Europeans countries than our own local issues (I'm in the EU), and both our news and politicians react quickly to it, even though US problems are mostly irrelevant here. Even without living close to America, or try to be only consuming local content, it is impossible to avoid whatever is happening there. This country has really too much impact over the rest of the world, which wouldn’t be necessarily an issue if not for the fact that it is widely dysfunctional.

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's acceptable to elevate Black people to be on the same level as other races in America as opposed to disadvantaged. I actually think Black America is owed a lot more than what Google is doing here after centuries of legalized racism and being shut out of building wealth, but that's the US government that owes them.

Can you clarify what "elevating" looks like from your perspective? And considering how many immigrants there starting out with literally nothing (one example) how we should pick one race to help but not all terribly disadvantaged people?

America knew exactly how to target Black people with legalized racism during slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. All we have to do now is the exact same targeting, but in a positive direction to correct the centuries of economic warfare and legalized racism that was targeted against Black America.

None of this means that no other disadvantaged groups don't have a case either.

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don’t see how elevating a single race over others might be an issue?

I think it's acceptable to elevate Black people to be on the same level as other races in America as opposed to disadvantaged. I actually think Black America is owed a lot more than what Google is doing here after centuries of legalized racism and being shut out of building wealth, but that's the US government that owes them.

"Other races" don't get special labels on their businesses.

Putting tags like "Women Owned" de-legitimizes the owner. It makes women owned business seem stigmatized, as if it's unusual or especially notable. It strips them of their dignity.

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#48
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to "Anti-racists", MLK's dream of "judging people by the content of their character" is now a racist dog-whistle. Not sure when, but eventually the shoe must drop and people realize this so-called "Anti-racism" is an incredibly racist ideology. This is not progress.

That’s a glib interpretation. And you’re pushing the same anti- affirmative action viewpoint that has maintained racial inequities.

Affirmative action as currently implemented based primarily on race is just as bad, shifting the inequality of opportunity at best. White people of low socioeconomic status are disadvantaged while people of color with high socioeconomic status unfairly benefit. The idea of affirmative action and “anti-racist” policies are fundamentally fine, but it’s almost completely socially unacceptable to disagree with the popular strategies.

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#49

I’d suggest most of you read this as a longer form examination of policies like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Be_an_Antiracist Rather than trying to make tired points in 140 characters.

Most of us understand the "anti-racist" philosophy. We just don't agree with it.

BTW, it's the height of passive aggressiveness to use this rhetorical trick of naming things (antifa, anti-racist) in such a way that you use the very name to shame people.

I mean, meet my new group: the anti-evil collective. What's that? You're don't agree with us? Well, you're against evil, aren't you? Are you some kind of a demon, or a devil?

Re: Google adds "Black-owned" business attribute to local listings

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a glib interpretation. And you’re pushing the same anti- affirmative action viewpoint that has maintained racial inequities.

Affirmative action as currently implemented based primarily on race is just as bad, shifting the inequality of opportunity at best. White people of low socioeconomic status are disadvantaged while people of color with high socioeconomic status unfairly benefit. The idea of affirmative action and “anti-racist” policies are fundamentally fine, but it’s almost completely socially unacceptable to disagree with the popula…

Racial inequity is socially unacceptable. That’s the whole damn point.
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