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The Haskell Elephant in the Room

stephendiehl.com

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Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#291

Post by sukilot »

analyte123 wrote: post #76
bondarchuk wrote: post #11

Very much a generic anti-cryptocurrency rant, and very little haskell-specific clarifications. I understand not wanting to name specific projects (Cardano comes to mind; " Cardano is a blockchain platform built on the groundbreaking Ouroboros proof-of-stake consensus protocol, and developed using the Haskell programming language: a functional programming language that enables Cardano to pursue evidence-based developm…

This is an article about a giant pot of questionably earned money buying influence in a software ecosystem that he's been a big part of. But this is hardly the first time for this, in other cases the pot of questionably earned money came from selling people's data for ads or from Windows licenses. The question in all of these cases is what specific bad influences the money can have on the software ecosystem and how c…

It's not buying influence, it's "blood money" -- profiting from crime by selling things to criminals. When Prada sells luxury clothes to drug lords, the problem isn't that the drug lords influence Prada

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#292

Post by sukilot »

burkaman wrote: post #147
cinntaile wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have re-read the blog post and I can't find what you mention. The blog post is basically telling us that cryptocurrencies and its leaders are a giant scam and they don't contribute anything of value to society. Your interpretation is very generous if you ask me. A blog post with that angle would be interesting to read though. It would have more to do with the Haskell ecosystem than this one and it would be good to…

Well yes, if the author didn't think cryptocurrencies were a problem, then he probably wouldn't be bothered by crypto currencies influencing the community. There are always going to be large organizations influencing Haskell, like the UK government and Microsoft in the past. I'm guessing this blog post is aimed at people who work with Haskell and know about the crypto companies in the community, but see them like any…

It's not about "influence". It's about feeling bad that the Haskell libraries are being paid for by the victims of financial scams.

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#293

Post by mightybyte »

shadowgovt wrote: post #280
mightybyte wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies and blockchains still don't seem to solve a real problem. Have you ever wanted to send money to someone who wasn't in the same location as you? Alternatively, have you ever wanted to send a large amount of money without dealing with a large volume of cash, gold, or some other physical store of value (making the down payment on a house or car for instance)? Blockchains make it possible for you to do…

I'll believe this when somebody buys a house with Bitcoin.

> I'll believe this when somebody buys a house with Bitcoin.

Regardless of whether centuries-old cultural and social infrastructure evolves to take advantage of this, the fact of the matter is that blockchains do actually enable this kind of electronic value transfer. And they do it in a way that results in a number of properties that are significantly different from our existing value transfer systems.

It remains to be seen how important these differences are and how much of an impact they will have on our society. Will it be huge like the crypto-maximalists preach? Or will it be a passing fad that is not much more than a blip? I don't know. But that doesn't change the fact that blockchains were a genuine technological advance that enabled something that we weren't previously able to do.

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#294

Post by lmm »

sukilot wrote: post #290
lmm wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it wrong to work with certain traditional finance companies because of their association with cash? On the contrary, drug dealers and criminals stay away from traditional banks precisely because of this. Are you asking is it wrong to work in the foreign banknote management business, or the Western Union style irreversible wire transfer business, or the gift card trading business, or a business that wants to pay…

www.marketwatch.com/story/netflix-documentary-re-examines-hsbcs-881-million-money-laundering-scandal-2018-02-21

The way that whole affair is reported infuriates me. HSBC followed unclear government guidance and advised their clients to do the things that the government said were low risk. That article talks about "money laundering crimes" but nothing HSBC did was ever shown to be criminal, nor should it have been. They moved money in a legal way for their clients, but people would rather blame bankers than drug dealers.

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#295

Post by teruakohatu »

anaphor wrote: post #31

There are also a lot of traditional finance companies using Haskell[1]. And, historically some of the people who created the language itself and have worked on GHC (and other compilers), or contributed heavily to the ecosystem have worked for traditional banks[2]. I don't mention them to encourage people to attack these people, but it comes off as a bit selective to focus on the people using your language for cryptoc…

What iare the killer haskell fintech libraries?

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#296

Post by 1propionyl »

c3534l wrote: post #242
shpongled wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider Stephen to be an extremist when it comes to stuff like this. I follow him on twitter, and he frequently tweets things like: "More programmers should have the moral fortitude to stand up to the Facebook employees in their communities. This is not a socially acceptable career. Facebook employees have chosen to turn their skills on poisoning the very communities that gave them opportunities to thrive." [0] "P…

I find it ironic that he should criticize Plantir and Facebook for creating a surveillance state, yet also crypto for allowing anonymous monetary transactions.

I didn't see in this article any criticism of cryptocurrency for _allowing anonymous monetary transactions_.

The criticisms that are made are:

1) That cryptocurrency's "entire existence is purely predicated on the appeal as a speculative investment first and not on its efficacy to transmit value".

2) That crypto exchanges are "effectively digital gambling sites, in which unsophisticated investors trade unregulated products on markets that are directly manipulated by exchanges with no oversight".

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#297

Post by yesbabyyes »

thereticent wrote: post #269
heinrich5991 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to be built in the U.S. What about the global situation? Is it the same?

The UK had Colossus a bit earlier, which I believe was the first fully electronic digital computer.

Don't forget about Konrad Zuse's Z3!

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#298

Post by lioeters »

lmm wrote: post #294
sukilot wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

www.marketwatch.com/story/netflix-documentary-re-examines-hsbcs-881-million-money-laundering-scandal-2018-02-21

The way that whole affair is reported infuriates me. HSBC followed unclear government guidance and advised their clients to do the things that the government said were low risk. That article talks about "money laundering crimes" but nothing HSBC did was ever shown to be criminal, nor should it have been. They moved money in a legal way for their clients, but people would rather blame bankers than drug dealers.

> nothing HSBC did was ever shown to be criminal

HSBC has a sordid history of associating with criminal or unethical behavior, including active participation in money-laundering - far from "moved money in a legal way".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC#Controversies

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#299

Post by isoskeles »

knorker wrote: post #266
yarrel wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Legal financial services are bailed out by the state when they destroy the economy, cryptocurrencies don't do that" doesn't take 900 words.

Except when they do get bailed out. Eth.

What exactly are you referring to? Can you link an article to explain, as it sounds like you're saying Ethereum was bailed out by the federal government.

Re: The Haskell Elephant in the Room

#300

Post by [deleted] »

nine_k wrote: post #86

I think this is a rather strange way of thinking. Fortran has been extensively used for nuclear weapons development. Let's stay away from Fortran! C was and is widely used in weapons control systems. Let's stop using C! Computers themselves were initially designed for artillery fire control, with an explicit intention of killing people. Let's not touch the technology with such a foul pedigree. This can be continued a…

[deleted]
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