And finally we got nginx as legacy now, lul.
Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
71–80 of 243 posts
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#72I feel so old now. There was a time, when I used to discuss with senior engineers @ Yahoo! to use NginX over Apache. Nginx was the hot thing, popularizing C10k [1]. Now in my current team, I have junior devs in my team pushing for Envoy over HAProxy/Nginx setup. Is this trend happening primarily because devs are pushing for GRPC over REST? What benefits does Envoy offer over Nginx, if you're still a REST based servic…
Totally get it! The team (@veshji and @euroelessar) struggled a bit in convincing me that the new Envoy way is a simpler one. I do not regret giving in.
Operationally, there are many differences (esp. around Observability) but if I were to distill it down to one thing it is a clean separation between data- and control-plane. This basically means that it was designed to be automated and the automation layer (xDS) itself runs just like any other normal service in production.
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#73How does Envoy compare to Caddy 2 ?
https://caddyserver.com
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the article - a hugely successful company not contributing to an open source project which enabled them to succeed in the first place ...
There are different paths companies take. Some buy and it really works for them and their business, since overhead is small and everything just works. The other set of companies have more sophisticated requirements: when they want to have full control on what is going on, understand what the code is doing to better optimize everything else around it, faster shipping cycles and being able to implement what you want wi…
> when they want to have full control on what is going on, understand what the code is doing to better optimize everything else around it, faster shipping cycles and being able to implement what you want with out waiting for the next shipping cycle with commercial software, community and knowledge base around it etc.
I'm a bit confused by this - I work for HAProxy Technologies and we do have an enterprise product. Many of our customers contribute code directly into the community and we backport those features into the latest enterprise stable version. This means they do not have to wait until the next shipping cycle to take advantage of a new feature. There's also a large community & knowledge base around HAProxy.
Your reasoning may be right when dealing with "closed source enterprise software" but it doesn't line up when we start talking about open source/open core.
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#75How does Envoy compare to Caddy 2 ? https://caddyserver.com
Found some related discussion here:
https://caddy.community/t/caddy-to-replace-envoy-for-ha-setu...
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#76How does Envoy compare to Caddy 2 ? https://caddyserver.com
To tell you the truth, we didn't consider it. From what I can get from the architecture docs[1], it can be a decent platform for apps, but might not be the best choice for a general purpose ingress/egress proxy (at least for now.)
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are different paths companies take. Some buy and it really works for them and their business, since overhead is small and everything just works. The other set of companies have more sophisticated requirements: when they want to have full control on what is going on, understand what the code is doing to better optimize everything else around it, faster shipping cycles and being able to implement what you want wi…
> when they want to have full control on what is going on, understand what the code is doing to better optimize everything else around it, faster shipping cycles and being able to implement what you want with out waiting for the next shipping cycle with commercial software, community and knowledge base around it etc. I'm a bit confused by this - I work for HAProxy Technologies and we do have an enterprise product. Ma…
Shipping cycle is one of the reasons mentioned. And as you can imaging, unfortunately, contributing to Nginx open source is not an easy thing (but they have a great product for sure). If HAProxy is different in terms of contributions - it is great!
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#78Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#79Did you consider using commercial nginx? If so, what made you decide against it?
Sadly, it would probably be as hard to maintain as an opensource version. We really want to have access to the code to make sure we can fix, troubleshoot it, understand it fast... Things that may've help: -- Configuration definition (e.g. protobufs.) -- More focus on observability: error metrics (instead of logs), tracing, etc. -- gRPC control plane. -- C++ module development SDK. -- (ideally) bazel. Some dataplane f…
Don't any of the major commercial open source vendors offer custom terms to give access to the commercial source? I'd imagine they'd contemplate it for big deals. Seems like one of the only ways to keep some of these sophisticated customers onboard.
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#80Also note that we’ll cover the open source version of the Nginx, not its commercial version with additional features. It always kills me when very successful companies don't buy software from other companies. I remember being at a lunch with a prospective client that really loved our technology. About 1/2 way through, he said he really would love to purchase our software, but the CEO doesn't allow them to use anythin…
This also rubbed me the wrong way. As an individual I think that shows selfish and opportunistic behaviour and it raises a red flag about that organisation in my mind.
However, for profit companies are not here to do what’s “correct” they’re here to make money for its investors. If I had decision making abilities at Nginx I’d be conducting a comprehensive review of the free OSS offering and redacting the features and overall value with extreme prejudice.
Dropbox never paid because it COULD not pay. If you have an enterprise, paid version of your OSS product it has to be impossible for an enterprise to use it for free.