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Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
61–70 of 243 posts
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honest question: In what way? Platform wars are over-ish. We have the same compile targets. What they call "Undefined Behavior) is relegated to ... well ... platforms we are not supporting. C is fast - simple - easy(ish) to learn, and easy to "fuzz" in testing. I can't speak to LUA - but C++ looks like a mine-field (to me). Why do you declare that C++ is "better"? (Seriously interested - I don't even know enough thes…
There are many reasons which lead to a cleaner codebase, some of them are: RAII, smart pointers, constant types, reusable containers, standard algorithms library, cleaner way to define interfaces, etc. Overall our experience is that C++ code is smaller, simpler to write/read, and has a smaller chance of mistakes than equivalent logic written in C. Of course many of this points are relevant only for relatively modern…
Fair enough. Thank you.
In my case - C (as a language) had a smaller footprint, and if the targets were limited, it was easier to learn, to lint and to code-inspect.
Admittedly, this was mostly before C++14. I guess this might be a case of "once bitten, twice shy".
Thank you.
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe we program in different verticals. I have not found it to be so. (I have still upvoted your comment).
I value your opinion.
Well, that is very gracious - esp. here.
I value yours.
You have different experiences than I do - so our conclusions will differ.
That said - I "feel" as if C++ is a dangerous serpent of a language. Maybe I need to spend 6 months re-acquainting myself in complex environments with more developers than just me, and re-evaluate that presumption on a medium-size project.
Thank you.
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
We had a large rundown of our Traffic Infrastructure some time ago[1]. TL;DR is: * First level of loadbalancing is DNS[2]. here we try to map user to a closest PoP based on metrics from our clients. * User to a PoP path after that mostly depends on our BGP peering with other ISPs (we have an open peering policy[3], please peer with us!) * Within the PoP we use BGP ECMP and a set of L4 loadbalancers (previously IPVS,…
Katran - nice! Any issues with it at all? Do you use it with xdp capable hardware or just normal driver offload?
It works beautifully. We use driver offload (i40e on the Edge.)
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#65Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#66Also note that we’ll cover the open source version of the Nginx, not its commercial version with additional features. It always kills me when very successful companies don't buy software from other companies. I remember being at a lunch with a prospective client that really loved our technology. About 1/2 way through, he said he really would love to purchase our software, but the CEO doesn't allow them to use anythin…
Why does it blow your mind? Various obvious and sane reasons for this, including cost. I bet many of those companies you have in mind “buy” Windows and macOS, and if they are sufficiently big, most certainly buy Oracle or SAP for their corporate operations, finances, and accounting. It’s usually only the production side of sufficiently large internet-scale companies that is biased towards building. Most of the time y…
I think the point was a financially successful company not contributing to an open source project even after making a bunch of money just seems un-ethical? Maybe I'm old-school but I still think we should be supporting each other in this type of situation especially if one of us strikes it big? Sure - move away from Nginx but maybe throw some $ their way for the service they provided even if you don't legally have to ...
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#67Also note that we’ll cover the open source version of the Nginx, not its commercial version with additional features. It always kills me when very successful companies don't buy software from other companies. I remember being at a lunch with a prospective client that really loved our technology. About 1/2 way through, he said he really would love to purchase our software, but the CEO doesn't allow them to use anythin…
Exactly my thoughts when I read the article - a hugely successful company not contributing to an open source project which enabled them to succeed in the first place ...
There are different paths companies take. Some buy and it really works for them and their business, since overhead is small and everything just works.
The other set of companies have more sophisticated requirements: when they want to have full control on what is going on, understand what the code is doing to better optimize everything else around it, faster shipping cycles and being able to implement what you want with out waiting for the next shipping cycle with commercial software, community and knowledge base around it etc.
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#68I feel so old now. There was a time, when I used to discuss with senior engineers @ Yahoo! to use NginX over Apache. Nginx was the hot thing, popularizing C10k [1]. Now in my current team, I have junior devs in my team pushing for Envoy over HAProxy/Nginx setup.
Is this trend happening primarily because devs are pushing for GRPC over REST? What benefits does Envoy offer over Nginx, if you're still a REST based service. I am not fully convinced of operational overhead that NGINX brings.
Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google and Apple, to start.
They don't compete though. Google offers 17+GB free with email, office suite, unlimited photos, drive and Voice with a free number for unlimited calling and texting. Dropbox has much stricter bandwidth limits as well. For $9.99 you get all that plus 2TB storage with Google One. Dropbox has a minimum for of 3 users for their business plan, but with 1 user on G Suite for $12/mo I get unlimited storage and all the Goodi…
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Re: Migrating Dropbox from Nginx to Envoy
#70I feel so old now. There was a time, when I used to discuss with senior engineers @ Yahoo! to use NginX over Apache. Nginx was the hot thing, popularizing C10k [1]. Now in my current team, I have junior devs in my team pushing for Envoy over HAProxy/Nginx setup. Is this trend happening primarily because devs are pushing for GRPC over REST? What benefits does Envoy offer over Nginx, if you're still a REST based servic…
The operational overhead shifts to more API stuff, so people can write 100 lines of code instead of modifying 1 line of config, it feels like.
This is never going to end as more things shift towards being core APIs that allow you to write code instead of configure things. It's not even configuration-as-code, it's just code managing configuration files.
edit: I think my comment comes across maybe kinda rude. My beef with Envoy is that the documentation is _extremely_ complex, and I've repeatedly asked 'How do I get started with xDS?' and been pointed to the spec, which I think took some time to read through and when I asked others about how to setup LDS/RDS/CDS/SDS was met with a like 'what are these things...? just use xDS,' which led me to a lot of frustration. This has been my experience each time trying to approach Envoy, and xDS.