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When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

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Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#571

Post by cortic »

zamadatix wrote: post #570
cortic wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know that large amounts of refunds are treated as fraud, its just wishful thinking, as i thought. In the EU i have a right to a refund, there is no part of that right that forbids me from repeating that purchase. Since we have established that Apple don't suffer financially from obeying these rules to the letter, i see no incentive for them to treat this kind of thing like fraud. They might, but you have no…

You have the right to refund not the right to sale, which is what banning fraudulent transactions is.

Okay, I'm now convinced you don't know what fraud is.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#572

Post by centimeter »

Spivak wrote: post #515
centimeter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple regulation that would fix this without overbearing price controls is to require manufacturers to allow users to sideload their own app stores.

the monkey’s paw finger curls Regulation granted! There are now many stores on Apple devices. But the platform still requires code signing from Apple for code to run and must still abide by all existing Apple policy including entering into a contract with Apple that 30% of all revenue from your app on iOS is paid to them.

That obviously would be covered by the fact that I said the word "sideload".

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#573

Post by Spivak »

centimeter wrote: post #572
Spivak wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the monkey’s paw finger curls Regulation granted! There are now many stores on Apple devices. But the platform still requires code signing from Apple for code to run and must still abide by all existing Apple policy including entering into a contract with Apple that 30% of all revenue from your app on iOS is paid to them.

That obviously would be covered by the fact that I said the word "sideload".

second finger goes down

Regulation granted! You can now download and install apps directly from the internet or locally with no pesky store to act as an intermediary. However, you still require Apple code signing for the app to run and for that your app must go through the regular App Store approval process.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#574

Post by gerdesj »

waheoo wrote: post #482
gerdesj wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"where losing $2 at volume is fine." Sorry, when is this fine? A dev flogs an app at 10 and pays 3 to Apple. Then on a refund they lose 3 and the end user has no incentive to even delete the app. Nope, I won't entertain that nonsense. The only way that I can see for that model to play out is for the dev to factor in a lossrate x 1.3 uplift for their app. That means owners of shiny iStuff are paying Apple an additiona…

You're forgetting development and marketing costs. If there is a sunk cost component that number skyrockets. Try adding a $5 customer acquisition and $1 developer time. Thats a $1 profit, you need to sell 3 apps to cover the cost of apples fees. You also need to sell another 6 to cover the sunk costs you don't get back. So 1 refund costs you 9 sales. To cover the 1/10, you'll need to charge 10.90, or more likely 11 t…

I deliberately simplified things. My "10" is the costed price of the app.

Ignoring all other factors, flogging the app on Apple automatically introduces a parasitic "tax". That is the hallmark of a monopoly.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#575

Post by komocode »

dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #532
xuki wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have sold apps on the App Store for a decade now, and I have to admit I did believe the original tweet. I was going to go through the financial reports during the weekend to verify, but the initial reaction was “of course they would do this, it’s Apple”.

The fact this tweet is so believable says something about how poorly Apple has been treating its developers the last decade.

Such an awful comment.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#576

Post by tekknik »

oarsinsync wrote: post #554
tekknik wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We? No the standard Apple haters did what they do and rage as soon as you hear the word Apple but this is not the entirety of HN acting this way.

“Apple haters”, or Apple customers who have blown tens of thousands on Apple equipment over the years and have noticed their (relatively) recent focus towards maximising their revenue instead of being focused on producing good products. I continue to use Apple products every day as my daily drivers, and can’t see that changing. Im writing this from my iPad Pro. I’m probably buying 2 new iPhones this year despite them…

If you found the tweet credible then why did this come up now? When they were testifying before congress? That’s because it wasn’t credible. And the pattern is, some news about Apple comes out, people rage BEFORE getting the entire story, then later learn the truth and calm down. In this case it was a matter of hours.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#577

Post by centimeter »

Spivak wrote: post #573
centimeter wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That obviously would be covered by the fact that I said the word "sideload".

second finger goes down Regulation granted! You can now download and install apps directly from the internet or locally with no pesky store to act as an intermediary. However, you still require Apple code signing for the app to run and for that your app must go through the regular App Store approval process.

That's not what "sideload" means. I leave it to a lawyer to translate it into legalese.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#578

Post by oarsinsync »

tekknik wrote: post #576
oarsinsync wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Apple haters”, or Apple customers who have blown tens of thousands on Apple equipment over the years and have noticed their (relatively) recent focus towards maximising their revenue instead of being focused on producing good products. I continue to use Apple products every day as my daily drivers, and can’t see that changing. Im writing this from my iPad Pro. I’m probably buying 2 new iPhones this year despite them…

If you found the tweet credible then why did this come up now? When they were testifying before congress? That’s because it wasn’t credible. And the pattern is, some news about Apple comes out, people rage BEFORE getting the entire story, then later learn the truth and calm down. In this case it was a matter of hours.

> the pattern is, some news about Apple comes out, people rage BEFORE getting the entire story, then later learn the truth and calm down

I found it credible. I upvoted the post. I then learnt the truth, and posted that I found the original tweet credible.

There's no rage. There's just me, a long time Apple customer, finding a falsehood believable.

There's more nuance to the world than just 'Apple haters' and 'rage'. You don't have to be an 'Apple hater' to fall for this. You don't have to have been 'raging' to have fallen for this. You can just be (like me) stupid, and happily admit that.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#579

Post by nomel »

rzwitserloot wrote: post #546
labcomputer wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That... wouldn't work. Users can set each device to automatically download and install newly-purchased apps. Imagine the case where there is a device you have misplaced (or given to a relative, or had stolen, or ___). You must find every device with auto-download and purge the app from each one before requesting a refund. So you create a situation where it is possible that the user quite literally can't comply with t…

It is trivial to track that an app has never been opened on a device and automatically uninstall it in that case. Seems weird to fall all over the notion that 'oh no! apple can delete my apps remotely!' - but you're fine with 'apple can install apps remotely'. Uninstalling an automatically installed, never-opened app is not a breach of the personality of your device.

> It is trivial to track that an app has never been opened on a device and automatically uninstall it in that case

Why would you want Apple to have access to everyones online/offline usage habits for apps, and scans every time you restore a backup?

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#580

Post by BillinghamJ »

gamblor956 wrote: post #565
lxgr wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That clearly can't be true, as it would mean that Visa and Mastercard would be working for free for domestic transactions. Scheme fees are much lower for domestic transactions as far as I'm aware, though.

Visa and Mastercard don't use a scheme fee in the U.S. The credit card system is structured differently here than it is in the EU. Generally, Visa and Mastercard simply charge more per transaction for different cards in the US. For example, rewards cards cost merchants more, which is why many gas stations won't accept them.

The interchange is higher, sure, but that still goes to the issuing bank. Working with schemes still involves separate fees, as does processing and acquiring.
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