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Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

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Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#101

Post by kergonath »

llsf wrote: post #82
rblatz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also banks take on all the liability for misuse. Customers aren’t liable for fraudulent charges, that’s why America has lagged behind Europe on rolling out chip cards, customers don’t demand it because they don’t pay the price for card fraud.

That is the thing that it took me a while to understand once arriving in US from Europe. In Europe I did not care the least if someone managed to hack my credit card. The bank is liable. The bank is responsible to make as secure as possible. That is probably why we had credit card with chip & pin since the 80's. Banks had incentive to reduce the fraud as they could not easily pass it to the customers. But when I arri…

Coming from a country where your address and social security number are basically publicly-available information (so of course neither are used for anything sensitive), it took me some time to understand the fuss Americans tend to make about SSNs...

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#102

Post by kergonath »

techsupporter wrote: post #38
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and so the trade-off seems completely reasonable to me. If the bank has calculated that extra fraud costs less than the price mitigating it with additional security measures, and it is the one bearing the cost either way, then power to them!

I'm not sure I understand this. Fraud, and cleaning up after it, is not free of cost. If anything, fraud is more insidious because it costs the one thing I can't replace, which is time. Even for me--someone who has multiple payment cards, primarily uses credit (instead of debit), a healthy savings account, and a flexible job--cleaning up from a stolen credit card number takes two or three hours at a minimum. For some…

Overall, debit cards make much more sense than credit. Their purpose is just to move money across accounts, not to entice you to overspend and then prey on you if you forget the magic dance, or datamine your spending patterns. There is no intrinsic reason for credit cards to be safer.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#103

Post by kergonath »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #36
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and so the trade-off seems completely reasonable to me. If the bank has calculated that extra fraud costs less than the price mitigating it with additional security measures, and it is the one bearing the cost either way, then power to them!

This completely ignores the amount of worry and frustration which an ordinary person has to go through to get back to the point that only the bank are out of pocket. It's not trivial by any means. You could also make an argument that by continuing to allow this fraud to happen we're funding all kinds of nasty people. I'm not convinced the argument holds water since bad guys are often faster to move than the banks but…

It’s a systemic issue. In jurisdictions where banks cannot shift the risk to the customers, they tend to be more effective.

In the few European countries I know, banks are very pro-active about card fraud and refund without asking questions if fraud happens anyway.

Nasty people will get funded anyway, but reducing fraud also reduces their income. The main drawback is that people have to use their PIN (and even that is getting rare thanks to contactless cards).

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#104

Post by kergonath »

Nursie wrote: post #13
Nextgrid wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of merchants are starting to use 3D Secure now which is essentially two-factor authentication.

Starting to? It's been pretty standard for over ten years... (I'm in the UK, I have no idea how our market compares to yours)

It’s common in Europe (I think it’s even mandatory now, though not necessarily for each transaction).

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#106

Post by graton »

bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

First Tech Federal Credit Union offers Chip and Pin Mastercard.

https://www.firsttechfed.com/

https://www.firsttechfed.com/help/support/frequently-asked-q...

What is the difference between Chip and PIN versus Chip and Signature? Chip and PIN is the most secure type of credit card technology. Instead of a signature being used for identity verification, it requires you to enter a four-digit Personal Identification Number (PIN) that must correspond to information contained in a computer chip embedded within the card. The Chip and PIN authentication method has been a global standard across Europe and Asia for many years which means using your card while traveling overseas will be even more convenient. Authorizing your transactions with a PIN is not new to debit card transactions, but is a new way to authorize payments with a credit card.

You may occasionally still be asked to sign for transactions while using your chip card. Please be assured that while these transactions are still secure, many merchants do not yet support chip and PIN so you may encounter this from time to time. First Tech is committed to ensuring chip and PIN technology is available wherever merchants accept it. Learn more at firsttechfed.com/mastercard.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#107

Post by techsupporter »

bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

* Spokane Teachers Federal Credit Union (Mastercard)

* Andrews FCU (Visa, one of the cards is also contactless) - Must ask for the "international travel" card, the default is chip-and-sign

* State Department FCU (Visa) - Must ask for the "international travel" card, the default is chip-and-sign

* Target REDcard Mastercard (you have to get the normal store card and hope to get swapped out to the Mastercard after a few months/years/epochs; you can't get the Mastercard from the first go)

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#108

Post by techsupporter »

graton wrote: post #106
bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

First Tech Federal Credit Union offers Chip and Pin Mastercard. https://www.firsttechfed.com/ https://www.firsttechfed.com/help/support/frequently-asked-q... What is the difference between Chip and PIN versus Chip and Signature? Chip and PIN is the most secure type of credit card technology. Instead of a signature being used for identity verification, it requires you to enter a four-digit Personal Identification Numb…

Can confirm; I have First Tech and Spokane Teachers cards and both are chip-and-PIN. If either of them would start offering contactless on these cards, I'd have the perfect travel card.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#109

Post by nhf »

astura wrote: post #75
bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

Last I knew Barclays is the only one who offers a credit PIN that you can use at kiosks that only accept PINs. I also heard Navy Federal was rolling it out but their services are a military+family only This article says there's a few, ymmv https://www.creditcardinsider.com/blog/chip-and-pin-credit-c...

Barclays has chip and PIN capability, but it doesn't default to PIN if signature is available - it will only trigger if that's the only verification method, which is almost never the case in the US.

(Source: I have one, and the only time I've entered the PIN is at a British train ticket machine.)

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#110

Post by nhf »

techsupporter wrote: post #107
bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

* Spokane Teachers Federal Credit Union (Mastercard) * Andrews FCU (Visa, one of the cards is also contactless) - Must ask for the "international travel" card, the default is chip-and-sign * State Department FCU (Visa) - Must ask for the "international travel" card, the default is chip-and-sign * Target REDcard Mastercard (you have to get the normal store card and hope to get swapped out to the Mastercard after a few…

Also the UNFCU credit cards.
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