Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank • Hacker News Board

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#71

Post by Spivak » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #45

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a transaction doesn't get made because it was over $40, that represents unacceptable missed profits, if some unfortunate consumer gets their identity stolen[1], well, they should have been more careful. It would make sense to eliminate magstripes, to limit them to $40, to let people decide their own limit, or any number of other things - the trouble is that the incentives of the businesses, banks, and credit card…

> the fault isn't with the victim nor really with the perpetrator The perpetrator isn't at fault?

The perpetrator defrauded the bank, not you. The fault for your account not showing the correct balance should be on the bank.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#72

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

aerostable_slug wrote: post #63

humaniania wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it would make sense to limit magstripe transactions to $40 or let people decide their own limit.

This kind of thing is done today with EMV cards to determine whether the customer needs to enter a PIN or not. Under a threshold: swipe and go because the level of possible fraud is acceptable vs. the impact on the customer. Above a threshold, PIN required.

Not in the US.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#73

Post by bryanthompson » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #69

bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

I have inquired about this also and found no solution. If I use my US based credit cards abroad where chip and pin is the norm, I end up getting asked to sign a printed receipt. I imagine the card networks just don’t want to spend money to change the infrastructure to support chip and pin because the merchant pays for most the losses in the US?

The liability shift in the US that affected most retailers occurred in October 2015 -- basically, merchants are and have been liable for fraud that occurs on swiped transactions. I'd be curious to find out how the example presented by the parent article could change this -- a valid-looking card that only has swipe would definitely be taken by a merchant for fraud, and if the card doesn't claim to be EMV-capable, it seems like this would not be the merchant's fault. I would think in 2020, however, a mag stripe only card would raise red flags with humans at the counter, but gift cards are this way, so perhaps they would just breeze right through.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#74

Post by xenospn » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #69

bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

I have inquired about this also and found no solution. If I use my US based credit cards abroad where chip and pin is the norm, I end up getting asked to sign a printed receipt. I imagine the card networks just don’t want to spend money to change the infrastructure to support chip and pin because the merchant pays for most the losses in the US?

Had many arguments with cashiers in Europe who refused to let me sign receipts and insisted I just enter a pin.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#75

Post by astura » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

Last I knew Barclays is the only one who offers a credit PIN that you can use at kiosks that only accept PINs. I also heard Navy Federal was rolling it out but their services are a military+family only

This article says there's a few, ymmv

https://www.creditcardinsider.com/blog/chip-and-pin-credit-c...

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#76

Post by bryanthompson » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #74

lotsofpulp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have inquired about this also and found no solution. If I use my US based credit cards abroad where chip and pin is the norm, I end up getting asked to sign a printed receipt. I imagine the card networks just don’t want to spend money to change the infrastructure to support chip and pin because the merchant pays for most the losses in the US?

Had many arguments with cashiers in Europe who refused to let me sign receipts and insisted I just enter a pin.

Also interesting how there are such specific requirements at grocery stories. None of my US-based cards could be used in several grocery stores in the Netherlands. When the cashier looked at my cards, they immediately knew it was because I didn't support whatever networks they expect.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#77

Post by llsf » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #32

I will never understand why magstripe is still used in the US. Even after EMV became “mandatory” there are still magstripe transactions happening and when you are presented sith a chip reader it’s slow and awkward. Why is it such an inferior experience compared to Europe?

I was wondering too. But here in US the equation is bit different. The CC networks have already backed the cost of magstripe fraud in the business model. They convinced Americans to pay an elevated fee to balance the inevitable fraud induced by magstripe. Now, with EMV in theory the fees should drop as there is less fraud than with magstripe. Having magstripe around is a way to justify the fees. That is my understanding that it would be difficult now to explain to Americans that they paid elevated fees for so long to pay for fraud that was no fault on their own.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#78

Post by SEJeff » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #31

humaniania wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it would make sense to limit magstripe transactions to $40 or let people decide their own limit.

Won't work for gas stations which are the last holdouts.

Until EVs are more mainstream I guess, but that won't probably be for another 5-10 years.

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#79

Post by neom » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

bryanthompson wrote: post #66

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous. [1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards…

HSBC

Re: Is your chip card secure? Much depends on where you bank

#80

Post by jacques_chester » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #74

lotsofpulp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have inquired about this also and found no solution. If I use my US based credit cards abroad where chip and pin is the norm, I end up getting asked to sign a printed receipt. I imagine the card networks just don’t want to spend money to change the infrastructure to support chip and pin because the merchant pays for most the losses in the US?

Had many arguments with cashiers in Europe who refused to let me sign receipts and insisted I just enter a pin.

I was (politely) threatened with arrest on a British commuter train when the ticket inspector's credit card device insisted on a PIN for an American credit card.

He literally didn't believe me when I said American cards still ask for signatures. By luck there was an American also riding in the cabin who piped up to verify my story and I was allowed to pay when I reached my destination.

In Australia the same card works with contactless payment, which never asks for a signature, up to AU$100. But as soon as I go over that limit it's a card dip + signature.